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A new Experiment - cleaning the Injectors.

Discussion in 'Griso-Bella Chat & Tech' started by not-fishing, May 8, 2017.

  1. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Last month my G11 was down due to an open short. Yes, I had to get a pickup ride back home from Auburn where the G11 just quit to home.

    So while searching for the elusive short I decided to pull the injectors and send them off to AF1 for cleaning.

    After possibly fixing the short (only time will tell) I installed my cleaned and tested injectors.

    My G11 now runs outsanding! She's very smooth even at idle. She used to miss a beat before but now she's great.

    So I figured I need to do another test for verification. My 03 Lemans has only 32,000 miles but it's older than the 48,000 mi Griso. In the next couple of days I'm going to pull the fairing, pull the tank and send the injectors off to AF1. It takes a couple of weeks for the turn around.

    If clean injectors fix the Lemans occasional "cough" then this might be an unlisted necessary maintenance item every 8-10 years if you want your bike to run well.

    Mark
     
  2. Wisconsin v7 Racer

    Wisconsin v7 Racer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I'm pretty sure a local diesel shop can clean them for you and you wouldn't have to wait and no shipping.
     
  3. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Actually I had the local Dr. Injector clean my daughter's MR2 injectors. Took about the same time. The 97 Ford F150 or my son's I got them on ebay.

    When it comes to Guzzi Injectors, I'm going to be extra careful.
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Was it an open (no continuity to a component) or a short (power to ground where it shouldn't be) ? It can't be both.
     
  5. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Short, it would pop 20a fuses in a heartbeat as soon as I turned on the ignition. From a past experience with the same short I learned to carry extra fuses (5). The Griso would behave the same each time. The G11 would die (the short is on the fuel injection circuit) but the gauges would stay on. I'd coast to the side of the road, pull the seat, change the blown fuse and ride off. This last time it quit it didn't matter how many fuses I had. Once I got the Griso home I traced it to the fuel tank connection. (fuel tank disconnect - fuse didn't blow when bike turned on. Fuel tank connected you'd hear a "snap" the second the bike was turned on).

    I'm a simple old guy who has to keep simple because I'm easily confused when it comes to electrical work.

    Mark
     
  6. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Additional results on the Griso 1100 injector cleaning: Even though the ECU is reflashed by Guzzitech I used to get pinging at low revs, high load with an aggressive throttle roll on --think passing while staying in the same gear starting @ 4000+.

    Now there's no pinging -- maybe we just need to clean the intake & injectors every so often?

    Continuing my Experiment:

    I've pulled one injector on the Lemans -why did they locktite the screws? - but the 2nd injector has given me fits. The correct and fitted allen rounded out the final flat head screw holding on the injector (at least the screw turned one revolution). The easy out snapped off so I've resorted to dremel and drill. So far a couple of careful hours has been expended.

    My goal is to drill out the screw head, pull out the injector and then penetrant, vise grip, rotate the screw out of the throttle body.

    AF1 Racing wants $700 for a new injector without the throttle body. Why did they have to use locktite?

    Also I pulled the airbox because it had about 1/2 a cup of oil in it. It appears the K & N air filter was never cleaned as well.

    The interesting thing is this Rosso Corsa has a Guzzitech sticker on the ECU as well as a Power Commander III. Maybe when I get done the the intake rehab I'll just take of the Power Commander and see how she runs.
     
  7. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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  8. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Thanks Scott,

    Last night after a little searching I found an IW-031 injector for $45 but my real worry is getting the screw shaft out of the throttle body. I've ordered a drill bit extension so that I can drill the screw head out from the other side of the Lemans. Once I pull the 2nd injector it's off ot AF1 for cleaning. I figure on replacing the flat head injector screws with normal allens like you show. It's not like anyone can see them.
     
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  9. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    I don't have experience with AF1 on fuel injector servicing and although I do business with AF1 and like them, for fuel injection service - what you really need to do is send them to Russ Collins.

    I HIGHLY RECOMMEND RC Fuel Injection. Russ Collins is a living legend, a recognized authority on high-performance motorcycle engines, a Motorcycle Hall of Fame inductee, and a Fuel Injection GOD. He's forgotten more than most know and his equipment in his shop is unmatched anywhere I've ever seen. His work is the best there is available and his prices are very fair - $24 - $28.50 per injector depending upon configuration and include pre-inspection and testing, cleaning service, re-inspection and testing and detailed report.

    You will be very happy with his services. His reputation is impeccable and he is the very best in the world at what he does.


    http://www.rceng.com/index.aspx

    Screen Shot 2017-05-16 at 11.05.19 PM.png
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2017
    john zibell and GT-Rx® like this.
  10. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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  11. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    It took be a couple of hours of: drill with extension - didn't work because of the "walking" bit; switched back to dremel and grinder stones. grind some, rest, re-orientate, reset light, grind some, switch stones, charge grinder - I have both but needed cordless due to limited angle of attack.

    Thursday I got off the injectors and they went in the Post to Russ. Lots of careful Dremel work , maybe I should have been a Dentist.

    Cleaned out the carboned oil in the throttle body throats. I used my usual bamboo chopstick - cloth wrapped - carb cleaner soaked scrubbing tool. It seems a fair amount the breather oil was making it all the way from the crankcase, good quantity in air box to the throttle bodies.

    I took a good portion of Friday night to tilt bike to right side, soak the offending screw with ATF-Acetone release, wait a couple of hours, give it another soaking, wait more, vise grip tighten about as much as I could close the handle and turn 1/4 revolution careful not to snap screw. More home brew penetrant, more wait, more careful vice grip work. I did get the screw shaft out whole - with not much of a head left.

    This weekend it will be chase the threads in the throttle body, new metric allens from Ace hardware and wait for the injectors to return.

    The Lemans has a "guzzitech" stickered ECU with a Power Commander III. My next experiment will be to run her without the Power Commander. I wonder what the re-flash was.....
     
  12. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Always best to write me with a question like this. When a bike has both, I typically address timing and compensation tables on the ECU, and let the PC handle all of the fueling. If it runs well with both, I highly do not recommend removing the PC.
     
  13. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Thanks for the recommendation, I'll leave the PC on.

    Since the Rosso Corsa is a multiple owner used machine I wasn't sure about the fueling maps correctness. The Lemans had a habit of "coughing" between 2500-3500 at constant 1/4 throttle settings. It had a recent extensive shop tune-up by the previous owner which he said vastly improved a hesitation but didn't eliminate the "coughing" (my term).

    My theory is once the injectors have been cleaned along with the cup of blowby oil in the air box the Lemans will improve dramatically and the Power Commander may not be needed.
     
  14. not-fishing

    not-fishing Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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    Well the injectors went off to Russ Collins and came back with the report

    Before Cleaning: Injector #1 261.0 cc/min with good pattern, Injector #2 237.0 cc/min and dripping.

    After Cleaning: Injector #1 270.0 cc/min with excellent pattern, Injector #2 269.0 cc/min with excellent pattern.

    I used regular allens like in Scott's pic for the reattachment rather than the flat head allens that were original. The problem with the flatheads is the "key" is so small you can't put any real torque on it so removal of a seized screw is tough. that's why I had to dremel one out.

    The first hookup and run had gas leaking out of the top injector to fuel line connector. I disassembled it, the o-ring looked good so then I put it back together. I learned the test for correct assembly is if the injector could be spun in the fuel connection. previously it could not.

    A short ride tonight confirmed that the Lemans is running vastly better and is money well spent. Only $100 roundtrip to clean the injectors. This next weekend I'll take a couple hour ride to confirm.

    Now I have another problem to correct. I changed over the Lemans indicator lights to LED from #74 bulbs so that I could actually see them in the daytime. The fuel light stays on now. The fix is to wire the original bulb back in parallel with the led to get the proper load. I hate opening up the instrument cluster but either I put the bulb back in which I cannot see in the daytime or wire the original bulb in. I have two sockets on order.
     
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  15. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    My suggestion is to get an ohm reading of the bulb, then just solder in a resister (in series from the sending unit) of approximately the same value in the wire to the sending unit.
     
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