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ECU Swap/PC-V Update --PLEASE READ--

Wow these threads are taking ages to open, site loads up but the threads take ages to open.

Like the air box option, you selling that separately?

I am one of those cheap but will spend money on silly things kinda guys...for this type of expense I cringe.

Where does the 1200 USD come in to play? The auto tune is 250 and this ECU swap doesn't come with a 'custom map', or so it seems? I see you can/will include some sort of map so perhaps that is the extra cost? I need to justify dropping +/- 1200 beans.

And while some of us might bitch about the prices I think it is preposterous to suggest that Todd is ripping anyone off and more so to suggest anyone thinks that. While this shit may be waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to expensive, the expense isn't with Todd ripping anyone off.

adam
 
Thanks for the reply Adam. Yes, I will have to build a base map for every bike I offer the kit for. The bulk of the cost is for me to purchase the hardware/software, then drag all of the bikes to the dyno for a base map. PCV is $359.95 and the balance is for my time/investment. The AutoTune module would be additional to build a map for each owners bike and mods. I will not have the time to invest to develop maps for all mods initially.
The air box mod would be available separately yes, but has shown little benefit (actually worsens stock running) without correcting the fueling.
 
Zapa wrote:
So for us non-wise-enough, what are the benefits of a tuned bike?
I, for example, don't need more power, but I would kill for some finesse and making on/off dissapear.
Click to expand...
Zapa, what Bob says above... it'll make for a *much* smoother/crisp running engine, will eliminate the on/off throttling... and the added benefit of increased power. The new motors are being fueled insanely lean, so a power gain is inevitable, especially in the lower rpm ranges, where everyone rides most of the time. Make sense?
 
Todd: Are you getting enough interest to consider pulling the trigger? Can you break down exactly how the autotune works? Aside from knowing your A/F ratio, how are you customizing your map without a dyno run?
 
NeroGuzzi wrote:
Todd: Are you getting enough interest to consider pulling the trigger? Can you break down exactly how the autotune works?
Click to expand...
Yes, already have.

Part I: The hardware/software is ordered and in the mail.
Part II: Developing the PC-V - I plan to stop at Dynojet on the way to/or back from the National Rally in a few weeks.
Part III: Fitting/Testing the units on said models and developing a map for each model in order to sell the kit.

I will be able to speak with better on the AutoTune after my visit to Dynojet.

I will likely start collecting deposits once the hardware kit arrives, and I am successfully able to modify the ECU.
 
Thanks, Todd. I am always grateful for the effort you put into our Guzzis and this site. I am saving up the cash and will send you a deposit when you're ready.
 
NeroGuzzi wrote:
Thanks, Todd. I am always grateful for the effort you put into our Guzzis and this site. I am saving up the cash and will send you a deposit when you're ready.
Click to expand...
My pleasure, and thanks for the deposit note.

I should've been clearer on my post above. I barely have enough interest, but I am investing largely because I want to get my Norge running properly, along with an upcoming Griso project... so I hope others will be interested enough to help spread the immense cost/time investment. I'm hoping to just break even, and it will take all of those who said they're in to get me somewhat close.
 
Thanks Todd.

One more...without the revised timing and disabled 02-sensor input (ECU swap), the new PC-V won't work?

Actually two more...how is the install? I remember back with my Yami that the PC III had to be installed using 'the perfect PC II install' method. Digital input/output or something like that. Any special install requirements to get correct readings?
 
xenarchi wrote:
One more...without the revised timing and disabled 02-sensor input (ECU swap), the new PC-V won't work?

Actually two more...how is the install? I remember back with my Yami that the PC III had to be installed using 'the perfect PC II install' method. Digital input/output or something like that. Any special install requirements to get correct readings?
Click to expand...
It might work without the ECU exchange, however, it will not be able to control any of the fueling regulated by the 02-sensor.
I won't know any details on the install until I get to Dynojet in a few weeks. I'll post more on my return from the CO National Rally.
 
Waiting patiently.
I'll PM Pete Roper my email addy to get sorted in Australia.
AND thanks to the people putting THEIR time and money into sorting the ECU
swagzz
 
It's a shedload of money, and I'm still umming and aaahing.

If a Norge map for a stock bike - plus whatever mods you require for install - is included, then that's something.

I suppose I'm waiting for someone with a stock Norge to say "yes, this has cured the popping and it's made it way better" before I drop what's rather a lot of Australian dollars on it.

I mean it's OK for Roper, he's got a performance toy, I've got a hack bike. But if it makes the hack measurably different then as I want to keep the hack for at least 10 years...

Zebee
 
Zeb, If you can drop up to Bunged End sometime soon I *might* be able to improve the popping issue. If you have a Staintune on your bike binning that will improve things out of sight. While Staintune make a nice product the fact is that the pipes they sell for the Griso/Breva/Norge quite simply don't work and cause a lot of problems, especially on the over-run.

I'm in Montana at the moment but I'll be back in a couple of weeks.

Pete
 
About 30 years ago my wife bought a fancy new Bernina sewing machine. Lifting the lid was like looking into an Aladin's Cave of engineering excellence. "I wonder if oiling everything would make it operate even better?" I wondered, and did it. Even now I get abused for the way oil sometimes gets onto the work. IMHO altering a bike's stock exhaust unneccessarily is akin to oiling a new sewing machine.

Having fabricated quite a few exhaust systems in my time, I'm amazed at how well bike manufacturers do it without serious compromises somewhere in the performance range. In 2003 I managed to flatten a muffler on my V11 Sport. The cost of a new one was more than a pair of Neptunes, so I opted for them, in black chrome to match the black bike. Looked fabulous. Amazing note. Wouldn't take more than a whiff of throttle below 3k without objecting until "silencing tubes" were added. Cured the reluctance to take throttle. And the noise. And lowered top speed.
Methodofmeasuringsuspensionunladena.jpg


Too many bad experiences has taught me to just set everything exactly to specs and not go looking for trouble for the sake of it. Now that should raise a few hackles!
 
Too many bad experiences has taught me to just set everything exactly to specs and not go looking for trouble for the sake of it. Now that should raise a few hackles!
Click to expand...

Not here! I found exactly the same thing during my 54 years of messing with motorcycles.
 
The problem with the Griso exhaust is that it doesn't breathe and if you dropped it on your foot you'd
be in plaster for a month.
I.m actually going to hang mine over the bar as a deterrent to trouble makers,just drop it on them
will knock them out.
 
The vast majority of my cruising is long distance (2500 miles +), relatively high speed (75 MPH+), mountain (canyon carving). On a recent 'tuneup trip' last week, we covered 850 miles in 2 days and I averaged 49 MPG. For this type of riding, I can say that the Norge did perfrom well. I don't need a hot rod. For that, I have my 'worked over' '83 Lemans III with an SP1000 fairing.

If I upgrade the ECU, what benefit would I see with respect to the parameters as stated above?
 
seb wrote:
If I upgrade the ECU, what benefit would I see with respect to the parameters as stated above?
Click to expand...
seb, its not going to be for everyone, I understand.

Problem as I see it (with my 1000~ish hours on the dyno with these motors), is that the OEM mapped closed-loop portion of the map is CRITICALLY LEAN, and the open loop portion is HORRIFICALLY RICH.
The beauty of the above system is that I/we/you will be able to tailor the fueling to your needs. If you add the LCD, you can adjust on the fly, and watch your fueling on the screen if you run the AutoTune/02-sensor.
You can tune your way to a safe AFR in the cruise range, but you will likely loose mileage, yes.
Stoichiometric AFR fueling is 14.7:1 for a liquid-cooled internal combustion engine. Your air-cooled Guzzi is fueling at 15.4~15.7 in the closed loop. If you could read the head cylinder temp, you'd be cringing. Air-cooled = fuel cooled to a large extent, and a 13.x AFR makes your motor happy (run cool).

If you want your Guzzi to live a long life (additional power included)... this is the "solution" --OR-- you can close your eyes and pretend/wish/hope that your engine doesn't come to an expensive death after the warranty runs out. ;)
 
pete roper wrote:
Zeb, If you can drop up to Bunged End sometime soon I *might* be able to improve the popping issue. If you have a Staintune on your bike binning that will improve things out of sight.

I'm in Montana at the moment but I'll be back in a couple of weeks.

Pete
Click to expand...

Nope, stock pipe as I can't figure dropping $600+ just to make more noise. I mean I'd *like* to have something that sounds rortier, but not enough to spend money on it. (and I figure that the old fashioned method of drilling a few holes is not going to do it much good)

My main hassles with the Norge are the popping on decel and the pinging at low throttle openings. Which are all about way too lean at low revs. Seeing as I'm mostly riding it to work and on long tours poor thing seldom sees over 4000rpm so never really gets into the way-too-rich part.

Couplaweeks eh? OK, I'll ring you around the middle of July, that sounds like a couple of Roper-weeks!

Zebee
 
So I guess I have two comments about this.

1. Being an air cooled motor, the heat dissapation to a certan extent depends on the proper gas mixture. My Kawasaki Concours is water cooled and can idle all day long in 107 degree weather. However, when I was crossing from the Canadian border the other day, I found my Norge was starting to seriously cook while waiting for the border Nazis to move the lineup. If the motor is running lean at the bottom end (which I can believe given all the popping racket when the throttle is off and coasting), I should expect insufficient cooling.
2. At the top end (where I spend most of my time) I am just blowing gas out the exhaust.

Do I have this correct?
 
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