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Griso problems... is it the starter motor?

marcus_b

marcus_b

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
70
Hi all,

I thought I would start a new thread regarding my troubles in the tech section as it getting to be more than a light hearted chat!

The old one is here: https://www.guzzitech.com/index.php?op ... 40&id=1725

My lovely new 06 Griso wont start, I get a click from the starter motor solenoid but the engine wont turn over. Ive checked the battery and its fully charged (plus it was only replaced a few months ago by the dealer I bought it from) I checked the connections and the positive was a little lose, so thinking it maybe this I took the battery out cleaned the terminals and re-attached the battery but still no joy. Occasionally it will start if I have left it overnight, but if it does click it has never started straight afterwards. There are no CPU codes and only dashboard codes for Could this be the starter motor?

I'm going to call the dealer I bought it from tomorrow, but they arn't Guzzi dealers so i'm hoping you maybe able to point them and me in the right direction.

Thanks in advance!

Marcus
blink:
 
I think the next thing I would do is check the cables running to the starter and to the ground. Could be that one is loose and make sure that the cable ends are mated well to the cables (give them a good tug and see that there is no play).

If your battery has a good charge then it sound like a loose connection somewhere...
 
Pete,

No the dashboard stays on as normal, no warning lights except for the stand and neutral.

Uncle,...good idea, I will have a look when I get back from work.

Thanks for your suggestions
 
Here are the voltages I get:

12.5v with the ignition off

11.8v with the ignition on

11.1v minimum when I hit the starter

I get the relay 'click' an the starter motor 'CLICK' but nothing else...

Here is a photo of my battery, im guessing this isnt the stock version, but is it upto spec with 14ah?



Phoned the dealer and hes going to try and pick it up when he can... although hes only got a part time van driver and its over an hour drive away.
:blink:
 
You can try this.

Remove the starter. Have the cables connected. Then key on and hit the starter button. If it spins with no load, probably battery, if it doesn't, solenoid or starter problem.
 
11.8 is not enough to start the motor. This happened to me recently and as i had nothing to test the battery with i just put it on the charger o/night and it has worked fine since.
I would take the battery to someone other than where you got it and have it load tested.
 
11.8 does sound a bit low.
You can test the starter easily enough though. No real need to remove the motor from the engine.
My preferred method, assuming you can get at the terminals on the end of the solenoid, would be to just bridge across from the main battery terminal to the small spade terminal on the end of the solenoid. This should spin the starter, and turn the engine. Leave the ignition off.
If it spins the motor fine, then both battery and starter are fine, and your problem lies in the feed via the egnition switch, starter button, possibly ECU to and the starter relay, to the solenoid spade terminal. Make sure all connections are clean.
If it only turns the starter very slowly, or not at all, then it's the battery.
If you still only get the click of the solenoid moving, but the motor doesn't turn, then it could be a dodgy solenoid.
 
I just looked in the book and the original battery is 18Ah and the one is mine is 14Ah, so perhaps this is the problem...i'll kepp you posted.
 
get the correct battery,i believe your dealer changed it for you so its is fault.Ive found the battery as to be tip top for these guzzis.all the best
 
Brian UK wrote:
11.8 does sound a bit low.
You can test the starter easily enough though. No real need to remove the motor from the engine.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. If you don't remove the load from the starter, you don't know the true condition. What may cause the solenoid to "click" is there isn't enough current to operate the motor for the load, or the starter is jammed/defective. What you are suggesting provides the same voltage as pressing the starter button.
 
Looking at the picture it looks as though the "battery charging dongle" is connected UNDER the battery terminals.... I believe this is not a good idea and it reduces the surface area contact. I would remove it for troubleshooting to eliminate it as a possible issue.
 
Looking at the picture it looks as though the "battery charging dongle" is connected UNDER the battery terminals.... I believe this is not a good idea and it reduces the surface area contact. I would remove it for troubleshooting to eliminate it as a possible issue
Click to expand...

Hi Uncle,

Yes I had the same thoughts, this is actually and old photo, I disconnected the battery, cleaned up the terminals and replaced them with the dongle leads on top... still no joy though.
 
I had a duc ST2 a few yrs ago, the starter button was essentially and random number generator in that sometimes the motor would start and other just "click" or worse nothing....shortening the story it turned out to be a doggy regulator recifier.
 
Okay... - I believe that a 14Amp battery isn't enough gusto and needs to be replaced an equivalent to the stock Yuasa YTX20CH-BS (18Amp) -
 
john zibell wrote:
Brian UK wrote:
11.8 does sound a bit low.
You can test the starter easily enough though. No real need to remove the motor from the engine.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this. If you don't remove the load from the starter, you don't know the true condition. What may cause the solenoid to "click" is there isn't enough current to operate the motor for the load, or the starter is jammed/defective. What you are suggesting provides the same voltage as pressing the starter button.
Click to expand...
Sorry John, but if you remove the load from the starter, you will not know the true condition. If the motor is on the way out, it will almost certainly spin off load, but not loaded. If it does not spin under my test, then you know there is a problem with the starter or solenoid. You can then move on to bridging across the two large terminals on the solenoid, which will power the motor direct, bypassing the solenoid. If the motor still does not run then you KNOW it's the motor. If the motor does run, but didn't on the previous test, then you KNOW it's the solenoid.
And what I suggest does not supply the same voltage if there is a fault in the supply via the start relay etc.
It is therefore a valid test.

Also if removing the starter as you would prefer, make sure you make a contact between the case and the engine or frame, otherwise nothing will happen as there is no earth return.
 
Brian,

Sorry I disagree again. If the solenoid will click with load, there is sufficient current to activate the solenoid telling you the starter control circuit is good.

Next you have to determine if it is a defective starter or insufficient CCA to do the job. With your test you still don't know if it is the starter or insufficient current available to start the motor. If the starter spins, then you know there isn't enough current, or cold cranking amps (CCA) to start the engine. The need for more CCA may be the stater is failing (low probability on a relatively new machine), or the existing battery cannot provide the necessary CCA. Since he has a 14 ah battery instead of an 18 ah battery, that may very well be the case.
 
I would agree that in this case the battery may well be the cause.

But I have known cases where the solenoid clicks, but does not actually make electrical contact to the motor.

Let's face it, all these tests are valid, but start with those which are easiest to perform, then move on to removing components.
 
bet u a fiver its the battery,get the correct one
 
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