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Is this a main oil seal leak?

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by Campagman, Feb 12, 2011.

  1. WitchCityBallabio

    WitchCityBallabio Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Did the Pass two Summer's ago on a rented Agostini Stelvio. Very fun.

    Also did the Ballabio/Resinelli road. Equally fun.
     
  2. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Back on topic.

    No progress at the dealer :( but they seem to have some technical info that received last week from Guzzi Italy regarding a potential manufacturing defect with early engines (as referenced in earlier replies). They just need to get it stripped down and determine the leak path.

    I had a chat with Guzzi's customer service in Italy, they were helpful and polite but non commital on supporting anything due to being out of warranty. Anyway I've emailed them back suggesting that if the leak is the manufacturing defect that they will be expected to cover it despite being out of warranty (just as they did with the fork legs and cams) and if it is 'just' wear and tear on an oil seal then I'd also expoect some consideration due to the 7500 mileage to date. (can only ask).
     
  3. Bob Bernstein

    Bob Bernstein Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I hope you prevail with Guzzi, maybe the new management will be more reasonable. Anybody can screw up a product's manufacture, but then they should stand behind it, especially when it is a defect that is not readily discoverable within a reasonable time.
    Finally, we had decent weather here in Chicago area and I was able to get out for a great ride on both the Stelvio and my old SP. I love them both!
     
  4. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Got a quick reply from Guzzi Italy after emailing them last night

    In relation to your email, we regret to inform you that as a Customer Service we can only confirm that a manufacturing fault must occur in the first 2 years to be covered by the warranty. This position has been already confirmed by the Technical Department following your telephone call. Now that your bike is at the Dealer's for further technical investigation, all we can suggest is that your dealer send a request directly to the Technical Assistance to be adequately supported with the diagnose and the repairing.

    We regret not to be able to help you further regarding the warranty; should you need to contact us again please quote your customer reference nr xxxxxxx.

    Best regards,

    Moto Guzzi Customer Services Online


    Dealer also phoned me and advised the parts would be approx £165 :( :( (engine shaft seal plus a new flange (ie the bit under challenge of being a manufacturing defect, that £120 :eek: on its own!). I want them to have the parts so that they can minimise the time the bikes in bits.

    I'm not giving up with Guzzi yet, I think I'll now wait until the bike is stripped and then I'll have some evidence one way or the other.
     
  5. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Picked it up yesterday :D , will get to look a the old part and tinker with the bike later today.

    Loose bolts on the flange fixing to the back of the engine I understand. I'll get more info next week
     
  6. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    This is part that was replaced, surprised to see that it also contained the crankshaft bearing.




    The new flange apparently had no dowel pins, so hope the crank is aligned OK

    The verbal report from the dealer being some oil on the seal but the 8 set screws were only just tight as if they had been bottomed out in the tapped holes, there were replaced with washers fitted to ensure the flange is tight.

    Managed 2 rides of approx 20 miles each, so far it looks OK, I'm now away all week so hope its still clear of oil next Friday.

    I paid for the work over £550, incl approx £150 for the parts and that was only for a half the labour.

    Is it worth challenging MG Italy, the bikes out of warranty but if this is manufacturing defect then surely they should stump up for something!
     

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  7. Mi_ka

    Mi_ka High Miler

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    They have their nice polite way to make you feel really stupid for buying their bike, don't they?

    Once upon a time a local guy had his BMW K shaft reduction gear replaced 10 years and more than 100K kms after the purchase as "good will warranty" by the local BMW representative because "it is never supposed to brake-up when properly maintaned"...
    Do not know if this would happen again today but surely, MotoGuzzi should at least try and pretend to have a look into your problem - your money did not leak oil around (I hope), did they?!
     
  8. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    The training info on this is, typically, very vague. It doesn't state whether the dowels should be swapped from the old to the new flange, personally I wpuld of thought you should but it doesn't say and we weren't told. The leaks occur for to reasons. Forstly the bolts used were too long to compress the flange to the case. Secondly the o-ring groove surrounding the flange wasn't deep enough.

    We were instructed to get the o-ring groove machined 1/2 a mm deeper but regardless of whether you went that route or replaced the flange with the superceeding type it is instructed that no gasket should be used???? So how it is expected to make an oiltight seal I'm not sure????

    Pete
     
  9. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I think is IS the case as they reported the screws just tight, literally just needing the weight of the wrench to undo.

    Do you mean the little o-ring for the oil gallery, is so then assume the new part would be correct, they did fit a new o-ring here though - its on the bill.
     
  10. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Crank alignment isn't a problem. Everything is round. The key issue is lining up the oil passageways from the block to the rear main. Since you have ridden it as far as you have without the rear main coming to a screeching halt, you must be OK.

    I'm with Pete on the gasket issue. A gasket for the rear main housing has worked since 1967. If it worked for this long, why change it. Late model BMW airheads went from a gasket at the cylinder base to an o-ring. Usually the o-ring holds, but when they don't they are a real problem. NASA knows how much trouble an o-ring can be (Challenger disaster).
     
  11. notasweetman

    notasweetman Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    So my oil leak has form. Mine seems to be the same as Campagman's, but doesn't leak as much. I have to ride hard or through traffic to make it drip and even then there are only a few. No idea if they are gear or engine oil. I'm taking it in to be looked at on 25th and will report back.

    My bikes an a5 with about 11+k on it and I think the leaks been there a while. I never paid it too much heed till a friend pointed it out to me...
    :?
     
  12. patadam

    patadam Just got it firing!

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    hi
    i have just joined this forum , i live in orpington kent england . have a 2008 stelvio ,which as now had the rear crank seal leak for the second time 1st time repaired and replacement clutch under warranty then 11 months later same thing happens again , so far havining no luck getting work done under warranty again , but see there a problem with rear seal , as any one else got it fixed for free . have been trying now for 3 weeks to get problem sorted . any sugestions to ge motor guzzi to sort would be helpfull
    thanks peter
     
  13. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Sent you a PM.
     
  14. notasweetman

    notasweetman Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    As promised, I took my oil leak to the local dealer in Worcester (UK) and he confirmed the main oil seal. Since I posted on the 16th the leak has increased a bit but the bike's still rideable.

    I found this on the Griso forum:
    https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/topic. ... k&start=10

    ...which confirms to me that this is all due to a manufacturing fault and therefore Guzzi should contribute to the repair at the very least. But the more I read, the more I think it should be a recall. Pete Roper, whose posts I revere, mentioned that Guzzi had acknowledged a fault on early A5s. Mine's A5-13108, and so far I don't know if it's one of the ones Guzzi mention. But it seems to me to be a potential problem with all A5s. Am I too hopeful, Pete, Campagman et al?

    I had a 12000 mile service in April (tho' only 11k on the clock as the last service was early - complicated story...) and also had to have the throttle bodies cleaned and reamed out following contamination by the engine breather pipe as the airbox end. All this cost a shedload, and I'm facing many hundreds again.

    However, having spent the last few days and weeks agonising about carrying on with the Stelvio, and having blagged rides on several other bikes (like VFR 1200 Honda, Harley Street Glide, Yamaha Super Tenere...) and also having ridden the new NTX as well, I can honestly say that nothing floats by boat like my own Stelvio. So even if Mandello won't accept any responsibility for their error (which is all too likely!), I'll still pay up and get mine fixed.

    As a friend with a Ducati 916 says, "you don't just own an Italian bike, you are in a relationship with it!"
     
  15. kwn306

    kwn306 High Miler

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    You need to have your dealer fight the battle for you.........don't you send a he to Guzzi.

    My replacement cams and tappets went to lunch, Guzzi asked for pictures and as soon as they saw the condition of the replacement set the new ones were on the way. BTW, bike has been out of warrany since Jan 2011.

    But my dealer made it happen, told them that the services were done on time/schedule, good quality of oil was used, blah, blah, blah. If my Swedish, redheaded temper had gotten in the way I'd been SOL (Sh*t out of luck.)
     
  16. notasweetman

    notasweetman Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Thanks for that.

    My bike went out of warranty in Feb this year... And I'm letting my dealer do the talking as well. I'd cross my fingers but for the arthritis!
     
  17. fatal

    fatal Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    If you have no luck with Moto Guzzi, how about using the 'sale of goods act', claim from the supplying dealer, surely it is reasonable to expect a leak free engine after only 2 and a bit years, and 12000 miles, have you taken advice from your local trading standards dept?
     
  18. notasweetman

    notasweetman Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Guess what - the dealer I bought my Stelvio from is no longer a Piaggio dealer and as my bike is out of warranty he has no interest in helping me and the Sale of Goods Act refers to the warranty period too, but thanks for the advice.

    I'm going to get the seal done at my own expense as Piaggio is standing by its warranty despite representation from my local Guzzi dealer which is excellent, by the way.

    I wonder, just out of curiosity, how many A5 8 valve engines have had main oil seal problems...?
     
  19. Campagman

    Campagman Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Sending you a pm.

    Maybe we should go for a class action!

    My dealer advise the book hours as 6 for an engine out, slpit the box and replce the seal.

    Make sure they follow the exact details as the Guzzi bulletin, incl the sealant on the back face.

    The part was about £120 and I think I was charged around the 6 hrs labours although it took them longer
     
  20. notasweetman

    notasweetman Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I've carried on riding the Stelvio as a local Guzzista advised pretending the leak was like the old British bikes I rode when young. But last weekend as I pulled into the car park where my bike lives it dropped a 2 metre long splash across the tarmac as well as the usual drips when it's stopped. Also there is plenty of evidence of oil on the rear tyre. As much of my riding is with my daughter on the back I've decided to retire the beast until it can be fixed (about 4-5 weeks as my mechanic's on holiday!!!).

    He told me that there's a Piaggio guy who might be persuaded to help towards the costs and I'd like to amass some evidence of the problem affecting other 8v engines. I have found a mention of a Griso 8V main seal recall for '09 bikes - so if there are Stelvios (and Sports and Norges too?) with the same engine issue, shouldn't we have a recall too? Or at least an official recognition of the problem...

    If anyone could let me know some numbers of A5 engined Stelvios affected, I'd be very grateful!
     

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