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lubricant specifications

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by yukonica, Apr 26, 2014.

  1. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Hi folks. As OP I didn't intend to start a p---ing match. Thanks for all the advice and discussion thus far.
    Ambient temperature.. it'll be Celsius but the bike is metric so it should be too much of a stretch.
    This morning at 05:30 it was -7. A little cool but not unridable. Usual start time is around 0. In a couple weeks it'll be 5.
    Day time running; ambient is often high teens to mid 20's .... we aren't skating.
    As for the months in advance???? Now that I know I can't access the stuff in the territory I'll look into shipping flammable goods or maybe drive the 1000km to Fairbanks and buy a case. There's nothing closer.
     
  2. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Now let's ASSUME Android's chart is comparable to the needs of your bike.

    You'll notice 20-50 is only recommended down to freezing (0C/32F).

    I've seen it "allowable" below that on other brands, though usually a lower grade (like 10W) is recommended in those cases.

    Personally, I'd be tempted to go 20-50 if the upper end temps were say above 30C.

    If not, I might agree with the 5W, BUT I'd sure look for another alternative that starts with a 10W.

    Of course that's just my opinion....ymmv etc.
     
  3. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Kev M.... if it hits 30c I'll be hiding not riding. Way too hot for me.
    My wife is headed to a dog-show in Fairbanks on your Memorial day so I'll ask her to bring back proper spec lubricants for all three cases assuming they are available in AK.
    What's one more oil change?

    Thanks all.
     
  4. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    My original question still remains unanswered:

    Has anyone here personally experienced engine damage or failure due to using the "wrong" oil in their Moto Guzzi?

    If you can answer 'yes' to that then please give us the details. Otherwise...

    'Geezer
     
  5. Kev M

    Kev M Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Your objection masking as a question is meaningless, as a lack of reply proves nothing.


    How often do mechanics perform an in-depth forensic analysis when a failure occurs?

    I've never had a motor blow up on me PERSONALLY, for any reason, but that doesn't prove motors cannot.

    I've rebuilt and replaced more than a few motors in my life mostly due to bearing failures. I didn't perform any forensic oil analysis either, so who knows the reasons.

    We HAVE HOWEVER received reports from posters at WG over the years of oil light activation on 20-50 at hot idle on models spec'd for 10-60, so take that for what you want.

    And in interest of full disclosure, said examples were 2V big blocks, not smallblocks, so the risks may be less with a smallblock.

    But we've also received reports of smallblocks who have inexplicably used their entire oil supply in a few hundred miles and seized their motors.

    Once again no forensic explanation was given. Still, that would certainly suggest a potential vulnerability one might want to consider when arbitrarily suggesting a change in spec.
     
  6. Brett

    Brett Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Yukonica,

    Can you not purchase what you require for oil from Canada's Motorcycle? I checked their website and found 4L jugs of Motul 7100 10w60. I then placed four of them in a shopping cart and then had shipping estimated to the general delivery mail box in Whitehorse (Postal code Y1A 2B0). Shipping was free. I don't think that volume of oil falls under TDG due to the volume and shouldn't be a problem.

    I use Motul as I am unable to locate AGIP oil (10w-60 at least) anywhere in Canada. I have even contacted the Canadian distributor for AGIP and they were no help.

    Corsa Meccanica can help you out with parts and ship them right to your door step.

    Just a few thoughts and you would probably have everything in a week or two.

    Currently it is snowing in Edson Alberta, +4C, the surface temperature of the roads are above freezing and my 10w-60 will do me quite well, I will just have to ensure I get a good 50 km run in to ensure my engine gets good and warm.

    If you are really concerned, run what you desire and test your oil every change. That will tell you how your engine health is.


    I was up in your neck of the woods last year, the weather was more pleasant for my two weeks up north than the weather was here.
     
  7. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    G'day Brett and thanks for all the leads. Have to be honest and tell you I've never heard/used the retailers you mentioned but will be all over it shortly. Hopefully Corsa M has shift levers in hand. This afternoon I found mine had abandoned ship shortly after leaving Braeburn. Fortunately I was already in 5th and headed home. This is the second Italian bike to spit a gear lever on me. I had a Moto Morini that I loved. It dumped the lever about 300km from home so I rigged a pair of ten dollar vice grips: up used a piece of cord and down used a gentle toe. Neither trip home saw much shifting. :lol:
    You guys in the south have to let winter go... I like snow too but I'm okay if it doesn't show up again until late September.
    If you do come up this way again please give me a heads up... a little local knowledge has its benefits.
    Cheers.
     
  8. Brett

    Brett Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Funny story with the vice grips. Yes, I though summer had arrived a few weeks ago for good but the weather is up and down. Your forecast doesn't look much better, except for less moisture than here. I am probably heading up that direction this summer for 4 days with a group but we are only planning on making it as far as Liard Hotsprings, maybe Watson Lake and take a room at the Airforce Lodge.

    Funny, but there must be something about the Yukon robbing parts off of italian bikes. Last summer when my wife, daughter, father and myself were up that way, I almost lost my side stand but I was lucky to catch it in time and with a couple of threads remaining on my last bolt. Thank god a local at the A&W pointed us to Ajax Industrial supply, he had the metric bolts I required and the loctite as well. Wonderful people all around. Spent the night at the Sundog retreat, absolutely fantastic stay.

    I'll be in touch, we may have to meet up along the way if timing permits.
     
  9. M0T0Geezer

    M0T0Geezer Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Not seeking to engage anyone here in particular.

    Here is a link about use of ZDDP (Zinc dialyldithiophosphate) additive, which is recommended in "classic" engines, push-rod flat tappet ones in particular:.

    http://classiccars.about.com/od/mai...-The-Urban-Legend-This-Motor-Oil-Additive.htm

    Presumably such engines include the Guzzi small block 750 and most of their 2V motors.

    A new thread over at that "other" place talks about ZDDP and apparently we can thank the EPA and other watchdog guv and env groups for taking it away:

    http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69359.0

    Be careful about using too much ZDDP as that seems to be as bad or worse than using too little.

    'Geezer
     
  10. Zokn

    Zokn Just got it firing!

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    I, too, have come up against the difficulty of finding oils for the V7 in rural Canada. I'm in NS, by the way.

    But I did find out this: Motovan, a large Canadian motorcycle parts distributor, is the ENI distributor for Canada and they list the ENI I-Ride 10w-60 oil. Any motorcycle dealer should be able to order it, but may insist you buy a case of 12 1 litre bottles. KTM dealers should have the Motorex Cross Power 4T 10w-40 available, if there is one of those close by. Moto Guzzi dealers may have the oils, too , of course. I could not locate Motul in 10w-60 in Canada, although it seems to exist elsewhere, as do other brands I could not locate here.

    The gear oils: NAPA Valvoline Durablend Gear Oil is available in 80w-90 and 85w-140. Mobilube HD Plus MG is available in 80w-90 and 85w-140. Bel-Ray Gear Saver Hypoid Gear Oil is available through Motovan dealers anda comes in 80w-90 and 85w-140. Motovan don't list the ENI gear oils we need.

    I have no idea whether the ENI oils that MG specifies have additional stuff in them that our bikes absolutely need that there's alternatives don't contain.

    Have any Canadians who don't take their bikes to their dealer for service found other supplies or brands?
     
  11. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Zokn, ... rural Canada? ;) I'll trade two of your fall gales for one of my January blizzards... or maybe not.
    Appreciate your research though. Glad to hear I am not a soul in the wilderness. We do have a NAPA dealer here but the counter help seemed to be just that: counter-help. I moved on pretty quickly.
    I am hoping the various lubricants are available in Alaska. We go there 4 or 5 times a summer.
    If not: I am very well stocked in synth oils on any of the grades 'recommended' from the beginning of the thread.
    Good fortune to you in finding the nearest oils to spec.
    Regards,
    Don.
     
  12. langloisandy

    langloisandy Just got it firing!

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    I too live semi-remotely. 3hrs from the nearest decent city. ( +/- a few).

    I visited a KTM dealer yesterday who has the proper 10/60 in stock and some Bel-Ray gear oil for the tranny. Apparently KTM uses 10/60 for an OEM looooooooob.

    Not to sidetrack the OP, but why does Guzzi ask for a 140w in the rear diff? I come from a BMW background and they, for the most part, use the same trans lube as the rear. I find it odd to go with such a higher weight for this application.

    Regards,

    Andy
     
  13. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Probably because of the size of the case and the capacity. There is quire a bit of heat generated in the rear drive and not that much oil or surface area to disperse that heat, thus the higher viscosity requirement.
     
  14. langloisandy

    langloisandy Just got it firing!

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    Thanks John!

    Andy
     
  15. Brett

    Brett Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I order my fluids through the local Yamaha/Suzuki/Arctic Cat dealer.
     
  16. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Ah, Brett: an Albertan's dry humour. Local Yamaha is stand alone. I had great hopes because the dealer I bought from in BC is a great guy and a Yamaha dealer. Here: not so much. Could have had a chi-ching price on an FZ 09. Gear lever might even still be attached to the bike. Ordering something not already on the shelf? you jest!
    Suzuki/Arctic is a local family that has been here thirty plus years. "never heard of that oil weight"... "You sure?" ... "nope, not in the parts list: try Canadian Tire" ... So fk'ng tired of dicks who think that business stops at city limits.
    Can anyone suggest a reputible UK dealer who might "might" have access to a 2014 gear shift.
    As for lubricants; my hopes are set in Alaska.
     
  17. Android

    Android Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Famiglia

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  18. yukonica

    yukonica Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    Thanks for the lead Android. I'll put it in the info file. Won't be needing that help for the moment.
    Phoned my vendor yesterday for a final update before I took the gear lever search into my own hands. He is really stepping up to the level of service I trusted from him. I was told the parts are on their way from the mothership but could take too long so he'll pull the pieces from a new machine in his shop then express them to me.
    This isn't a large shop and he'll lose the opportunity to sell that bike until the parts arrive. That, to me, is class service.
    Thank you to Gord of ValleyMoto Chilliwack BC. You are as good as your word.
     

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