Chances are the EPA is just taking its time to "accept" the update ... UNLESS this is another case where the EU bike got its homologation with a restrictive map, and then received an 'update' that decreases emissions compatibility. I'm not sure if there's currently (a lot of) (independent) testing of map updates going on here in EU.
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New Stelvio map--benefits??
- Thread starter John in PA
- Start date
It's an "off-road or track" map I think. In other words, it makes the bike run the way it's supposed to run. Any dealer with an Axone can install the map. It's supposed to be a *secret* (SHHHHHHHH!) that it's in the Axone anyhow. Just get any nearby dealer who's a free-thinker to install the map. If you decide you don't like it, or Al Gore comes to your house, you can always reload the old map. In my bike it made a VERY noticeable difference.
( And I hate meddling bureaucrats who have no business telling me how to run my life when I'm not doing anything to harm anyone or anything. The most harmful thing I do is earn a good living, thereby contributing large sums to an increasingly hostile and wasteful government. OOPS! There I go again...)
(Next the evap canister comes off!!)
( And I hate meddling bureaucrats who have no business telling me how to run my life when I'm not doing anything to harm anyone or anything. The most harmful thing I do is earn a good living, thereby contributing large sums to an increasingly hostile and wasteful government. OOPS! There I go again...)
(Next the evap canister comes off!!)
"Next" has come to pass.(see last post)
Evap cannister off tonight. 4 screws and a single multi pin plug to get the instrument cluster out.(Warning: you'll have to reset your clock, and your trip odometers will reset. Other data is safe and unchanged) There is a large hose and a small hose on the left side. The small one comes from the throttle bodies. This one can be removed entirely. Use vacuum caps to plug the nipples in the throttle bodies, or plug the holes with a small bolt and washer. The larger one on the left is the exit hose for tank fumes. the large one on the right is the one that drops to the ground (actually inside the skid pan) After the cannister is removed, add a length of hose to connect these two, along with a couple unions, or short length of 1/4" copper pipe and a couple hose clamps.
I'm still chasing the fuel overflow. I think some drops back into the tank, and excess flows down a drop tube that goes near the right side of the swingarm. I still need to verify that one.
I might follow the lead of the fellow who dissected his Stebel Nautilus horn and put it's compressor in the place where the canister used to be and feed the horn with a length of hose.
Evap cannister off tonight. 4 screws and a single multi pin plug to get the instrument cluster out.(Warning: you'll have to reset your clock, and your trip odometers will reset. Other data is safe and unchanged) There is a large hose and a small hose on the left side. The small one comes from the throttle bodies. This one can be removed entirely. Use vacuum caps to plug the nipples in the throttle bodies, or plug the holes with a small bolt and washer. The larger one on the left is the exit hose for tank fumes. the large one on the right is the one that drops to the ground (actually inside the skid pan) After the cannister is removed, add a length of hose to connect these two, along with a couple unions, or short length of 1/4" copper pipe and a couple hose clamps.
I'm still chasing the fuel overflow. I think some drops back into the tank, and excess flows down a drop tube that goes near the right side of the swingarm. I still need to verify that one.
I might follow the lead of the fellow who dissected his Stebel Nautilus horn and put it's compressor in the place where the canister used to be and feed the horn with a length of hose.
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
John in PA wrote:
You had a couple of other changes made at the same time, right?
You had a couple of other changes made at the same time, right?
Wayne Orwig wrote:
Jason "fooled" the TPS into setting the base to 3.5 deg instead of 4.6, MI suggested that to him. Maybe a tiny change in economy??
Cam recall same time, shouldn't have affected anything. The Mistral I had put on before ever riding the bike, while still on the old map.
I'm pretty sure it's the map that made the difference. Pete Roper says the map is a notable improvement for the Griso's, don't know if he has any hands-on with a Stelvio yet.
We still need a way to improve economy further. Hopefully the PC-V will accomplish that(??)
Jason "fooled" the TPS into setting the base to 3.5 deg instead of 4.6, MI suggested that to him. Maybe a tiny change in economy??
Cam recall same time, shouldn't have affected anything. The Mistral I had put on before ever riding the bike, while still on the old map.
I'm pretty sure it's the map that made the difference. Pete Roper says the map is a notable improvement for the Griso's, don't know if he has any hands-on with a Stelvio yet.
We still need a way to improve economy further. Hopefully the PC-V will accomplish that(??)
I'm not sure if I should be adding comments to this thread or one of the others. I just got the cam follower rework done and there's no change to the "surging" issue I have. I can't seem to keep it running smooth at any RPMs and it backfires all the time. I'm disappointed with the service shops we have in Northern California. The shop in my city (Sacramento) does not have the latest software on the Axone and the shop in San Francisco does not even have the Axone. Both shops state Moto Guzzi (or Aprilla) is not giving them what they need.
You need the updated fuel injection map. It will cure the surging, assuming they've rebalanced the throttle bodies and reset the TPS voltage (which you can't do without an Axone or the TEchnoresearch VDST software
They didn't buy what they need. If they have the Axone, they can download the software updates if they're a dealer. No additional charge. If they don't have an Axone, the do need to purchase one, Piaggio doesn't give them away. If they plan to service what they sell, they *NEED* to buy the tools, including the Axone!!
The map is in the Axone in some hidden menu. Have them call MI or Jason Speaker, he can tell their tech how to get to it. Piaggio will tell them not to download the map as it's not EPA approved.
They didn't buy what they need. If they have the Axone, they can download the software updates if they're a dealer. No additional charge. If they don't have an Axone, the do need to purchase one, Piaggio doesn't give them away. If they plan to service what they sell, they *NEED* to buy the tools, including the Axone!!
The map is in the Axone in some hidden menu. Have them call MI or Jason Speaker, he can tell their tech how to get to it. Piaggio will tell them not to download the map as it's not EPA approved.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Just on this subject a bit of info that MAY be relevant.
A few weeks ago i got a call from a bloke up near Newcastle somewhere who has an 8V Griso. He was having the devil of a time trying to get someone to make it run right. By all accounts it was surging really badly, wouldn't hold a steady throttle, yadda-yadda, all the things I've been hearing people complain about but I myself have not experienced. Remember, 8V's are still fairly rare. I've worked on a total of two, one of which is mine, and neither of them were awful and both were noticeably improved by careful attention to TB ballance and uploading the #2 map.
Now he had taken the bike to a shop in Sydney that I don't think are overly 'On the ball' and they couldn't get it to run any better so last week he took it up to the importer where young Daniel did the cam replacement work and had a play with it.
I got a call from Daniel asking me if I'd had any problems with uploading the #2 map to mine and I was able to tell him that no, it was all very straightforward. Plug in the tool, press the buttons and 'Bingo' job done. Well it seems that the bike he was working on was refusing to take the new map. I don't know at what precise point in the sequence it spat the dummy but the fact is it was point blank refusing to re-programme.
Now obviously it is supposed to do so because the new map is in the tool and I've done it withno problems. So as I pointed out to Daniel that would seem to indicate to me that there was actually either a hardware problem in the ECU itself or some sort of programming problem and the information in the ECU is corrupted. Now since we are given precisely ZERO information on troubleshooting such faults the only thing i could suggest is that he warranty the ECU and see if that helps the problem. There were no other problems, no errors, nothing but if there is a problem that can't be diagnosed what are we supposed to do.
As I said on the other board. *You*, the 'Customers' are the end users, You are customers of the dealers and service agents like me, we are customers of the importer and the inporter is a customer of Moto Guzzi/Piaggio. If they don't give me enough information to make a thorough diagnosis and just suggest replacement of any part that causes a problem? Well, that's what I'll do. simply flick-pass it back up the chain until hopefully it lands like a huge, smelly fish on the desk of some tool at Piaggio who might just finally get the idea that they need to get things right 99% of the time not 55% of the time.
I'm NOT saying that there is neccessarily an issue with a batch of ECU's. I don't even for sure know there IS a problem with ANY ECU's but it's bloody difficult to work with one arm tied behind your back and a plastic bag over your head!
Pete
A few weeks ago i got a call from a bloke up near Newcastle somewhere who has an 8V Griso. He was having the devil of a time trying to get someone to make it run right. By all accounts it was surging really badly, wouldn't hold a steady throttle, yadda-yadda, all the things I've been hearing people complain about but I myself have not experienced. Remember, 8V's are still fairly rare. I've worked on a total of two, one of which is mine, and neither of them were awful and both were noticeably improved by careful attention to TB ballance and uploading the #2 map.
Now he had taken the bike to a shop in Sydney that I don't think are overly 'On the ball' and they couldn't get it to run any better so last week he took it up to the importer where young Daniel did the cam replacement work and had a play with it.
I got a call from Daniel asking me if I'd had any problems with uploading the #2 map to mine and I was able to tell him that no, it was all very straightforward. Plug in the tool, press the buttons and 'Bingo' job done. Well it seems that the bike he was working on was refusing to take the new map. I don't know at what precise point in the sequence it spat the dummy but the fact is it was point blank refusing to re-programme.
Now obviously it is supposed to do so because the new map is in the tool and I've done it withno problems. So as I pointed out to Daniel that would seem to indicate to me that there was actually either a hardware problem in the ECU itself or some sort of programming problem and the information in the ECU is corrupted. Now since we are given precisely ZERO information on troubleshooting such faults the only thing i could suggest is that he warranty the ECU and see if that helps the problem. There were no other problems, no errors, nothing but if there is a problem that can't be diagnosed what are we supposed to do.
As I said on the other board. *You*, the 'Customers' are the end users, You are customers of the dealers and service agents like me, we are customers of the importer and the inporter is a customer of Moto Guzzi/Piaggio. If they don't give me enough information to make a thorough diagnosis and just suggest replacement of any part that causes a problem? Well, that's what I'll do. simply flick-pass it back up the chain until hopefully it lands like a huge, smelly fish on the desk of some tool at Piaggio who might just finally get the idea that they need to get things right 99% of the time not 55% of the time.
I'm NOT saying that there is neccessarily an issue with a batch of ECU's. I don't even for sure know there IS a problem with ANY ECU's but it's bloody difficult to work with one arm tied behind your back and a plastic bag over your head!
Pete
Probably an EEPROM gone bad or something like that. Electronic components can fail, and in that case, the logical thing to do would probably indeed be to swap the ECU (or the dashboard, or the ABS computer). That may seem like overkill, but give how integrated circuits are nowadays, it takes a good deal of very specific knowledge to be able to service them. Swap it out — everyone happy about a quick and easy repair (esp. if under warranty and you don't see the price this approach carries).
In the case of a bike ECU, it'll probably get dished rather than repaired, and I'd not expect analysis to be done unless this failure starts to happen all around.
In the case of a bike ECU, it'll probably get dished rather than repaired, and I'd not expect analysis to be done unless this failure starts to happen all around.
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
A bit over a week ago I had the new map put on mine. For various reasons I have been putting miles on the EV, and just started riding the Stelvio again. It appears to have cleaned up the cruising speed surge that I had. I don't notice any other changes.
I didn't think to write down the before and after firmware numbers either. Bummer.
I didn't think to write down the before and after firmware numbers either. Bummer.
I've finally had enough of the crappy performance on my Stelvio so I took it to my local authorized dealer here in Sacramento. Before I took it to the shop I called to make sure I could get the new fuel mapping because I knew they did not have the latest Axione software. The service rep told me "No problem, bring it in. We'll download the new software and load the new fuel maps". After a day in the shop (and no work done on it yet), here's what they are telling me:
1. It will cost me $45 to load the new fuel map because Piaggio maintains Stelvios do not need the new mapping. Piaggio claims that Stelvios are adjusted at the factory optimally for a combination of on-road and off-road riding. (That sucks. The bike runs like shit and I think my choice of mapping should be covered under warranty.) But I told them, "OK, go ahead and do it. I'll pay the $45".
2. They don't have the new software required on the Axione.
3. Piaggio is charging them to download the new software. I'm not positive but I think he said they will have to pay a yearly fee.
4. Piaggio will send them
I'm going back to pick up my bike tomorrow and I will return it to them after they get the password. I'm not leaving it there for 3 days! No work has been done yet.
What the f***? This shop is pissed at Piaggio for the nickel-dime bullshit. We've already had one dealer in Sacramento discontinue selling Moto Guzzis. Maybe this one will do the same.
1. It will cost me $45 to load the new fuel map because Piaggio maintains Stelvios do not need the new mapping. Piaggio claims that Stelvios are adjusted at the factory optimally for a combination of on-road and off-road riding. (That sucks. The bike runs like shit and I think my choice of mapping should be covered under warranty.) But I told them, "OK, go ahead and do it. I'll pay the $45".
2. They don't have the new software required on the Axione.
3. Piaggio is charging them to download the new software. I'm not positive but I think he said they will have to pay a yearly fee.
4. Piaggio will send them
- by snail mail
I'm going back to pick up my bike tomorrow and I will return it to them after they get the password. I'm not leaving it there for 3 days! No work has been done yet.
What the f***? This shop is pissed at Piaggio for the nickel-dime bullshit. We've already had one dealer in Sacramento discontinue selling Moto Guzzis. Maybe this one will do the same.
I'm not completely surprised that it costs money to keep the Axone uptodate – and I expect other manufacturers have similar policies for their digital tools. Compare it to a GPS... costs $$ to buy, and one year later you discover it costs $$$$ to make it uptodate...!
Load of crap. Piaggio USA Tech doesn't deny there is a Variant 2 map, as I've been at/spoken with Piaggio-Guzzi Technical Services here in SoCal about it.
I recently did a 1000+ mile trip on a Piaggio loaner Stelvio with the V2 map (write up for this website soon). It still had surge issues at 3~4k rpm, but it is noticeably better then V1.
Outside of the "EPA dealer scare..." if they'll do it, you're on your way -- However, for a dealer to charge you to do this is ludicrous, sorry. It's an expense to them to own/maintain the Axone.. it's the cost of doing business, and it shouldn't be passed on to you. There are many dealers on this Forum that would likely agree with me. If they're charging you shop time to do, I guess I can't argue that, but $45 sounds excessive. Good dealers just do it, because they want a happy customer *AND* the bike running better.
My $.03.
p.s. See the ECU Swap/PC-V thread.
I recently did a 1000+ mile trip on a Piaggio loaner Stelvio with the V2 map (write up for this website soon). It still had surge issues at 3~4k rpm, but it is noticeably better then V1.
Outside of the "EPA dealer scare..." if they'll do it, you're on your way -- However, for a dealer to charge you to do this is ludicrous, sorry. It's an expense to them to own/maintain the Axone.. it's the cost of doing business, and it shouldn't be passed on to you. There are many dealers on this Forum that would likely agree with me. If they're charging you shop time to do, I guess I can't argue that, but $45 sounds excessive. Good dealers just do it, because they want a happy customer *AND* the bike running better.
My $.03.
p.s. See the ECU Swap/PC-V thread.
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
If the bike isn't running right, tell them to fix it. It is under warranty.
You need to present it as being broken, not just that you wish for a tweak.
You need to present it as being broken, not just that you wish for a tweak.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
I'm going to be in Sacremento in a few days. I have my Axone with me and don't mind in the least trying to upload the new map for you for nothing if we can arrange a meet. I can't unfortunately give you any gaurantee that this ill make your bike run better or even that I will be able to upload the map as if the ECU is a dud or the other running parameters which I won't have the tools to fix are bad it will make no difference. Oddly enough I don't go on holiday with a full tool kit. I suppose the sad thing is I go on holiday with an Axone
Pete
Pete
GUZIRDR
Cruisin' Guzzisti
with the new mapping do you know if it will fix the issue with finding nuetral????.....also it sometimes doesn't find second gear us I upshift...
Thanks,
Gigio
Thanks,
Gigio
I doubt it, but maybe you'll find a reverse gear, if you search well enough 
:silly:
Mapping is for injection. An unfortunate mapping may well make shifting more difficult, but I don't expect it to make neutral more or less easy to find (typically you'd be idling anyway). Have you adjusted your shift lever? Made a huge difference for me...
:silly:Mapping is for injection. An unfortunate mapping may well make shifting more difficult, but I don't expect it to make neutral more or less easy to find (typically you'd be idling anyway). Have you adjusted your shift lever? Made a huge difference for me...
pete roper wrote:
Can't resist:
Some people go on holiday with a wife, or kids, yet others with a bike. Each his own :silly:
(no, it ain't sad. I don't know your reasons to take it but it's damn touching you're offering to use it.)
I suppose the sad thing is I go on holiday with an Axone
Can't resist:
Some people go on holiday with a wife, or kids, yet others with a bike. Each his own
:silly:(no, it ain't sad. I don't know your reasons to take it but it's damn touching you're offering to use it.)
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
If you get around to doing this, make a note of the firmware number before and after.
pete roper wrote:
But see, it can get you beer in return. And it is a lot simpler to carry the Axone, then to try to carry all of that beer.
pete roper wrote:
I suppose the sad thing is I go on holiday with an Axone
But see, it can get you beer in return. And it is a lot simpler to carry the Axone, then to try to carry all of that beer.
GUZIRDR
Cruisin' Guzzisti
I was doing some reading on the furum and I guess it's an issue with the Stelvio in finding nuetral when downshifting and coming to a stop.....I searched and no luck finding reverse...:laugh: