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Norge & broken oil-pump

C

cvcaelen

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Dec 23, 2008
Messages
60
Location
Belgium
index.php


A magazine in Belgium (Motoren en Toerisme) tested a Norge for about 50.000Km,
the they took the engine apart.
The only real fault they found was a broken oil-pump.
In Holland a test-Norge suffered the same broken pump.
Apparantly (sp???) it didn't affect the functioning and good lubing of the engine, pistons and such were in tip-top shape,
yet the pump (housing) fell in 4 peaces

moto Tricolore has up 'till now no answer as what could have caused this,
and they don't intend to change all pumps.

Anyone in The States heard anything about this phenomenon?

Christiaan
 
Yes, It happened to Bill Hagen's Norge only it toasted the lower end of the motor and was repaired under warranty.
 
More here: https://www.guzzitech.com/index.php?op ... =3409#3523

Here are the ugly pix:

Why tearing down does not appeal to Mother Guzzi:


HAGAN2a.jpg



The parts:


IMGP9439s.jpg



Some of the damage:


HAGANCRANK.jpg


BTW, thanks to the Haven brothers at MPH, the Norge runs great. And, if anything happen to this one, yup, I would buy another. I just happen to be smitten with Italian kool-ade, laced with grappa, of course. :laugh:

Bill
 
cvcaelen...

Thanks for the post. Did the magazines mention if there were any signs of something
being wrong before teardown. It would seem a pump fractured into 4 pieces (although still
held together by mounting hardware) would be leaking oil from the bottom of the front cover.

BB
 
Well, that seems to be three out of how many 1200 powerplant equipped Guzzis. Probably no big change to the oil pump, other than possibly volume, but it looks like most pumps used for many years in a variety of vehicles. Personally, I won't get too alarmed as of yet.

I guess it would be interesting to hear from more knowlegeble(sp) people here, such as Pete Roper, Greg Field, Todd Haven. I really couldn't tell in Bills picture if the breaks looked crystalized or not.

Zoom Zoom,
John Henry
 
zoom zoom wrote:
Well, that seems to be three out of how many 1200 powerplant equipped Guzzis. Probably no big change to the oil pump, other than possibly volume, but it looks like most pumps used for many years in a variety of vehicles. Personally, I won't get too alarmed as of yet.

I guess it would be interesting to hear from more knowlegeble(sp) people here, such as Pete Roper, Greg Field, Todd Haven. I really couldn't tell in Bills picture if the breaks looked crystalized or not.

Zoom Zoom,
John Henry
Click to expand...

I agree, but will keep my ears tuned and if more is heard then maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a look see before the warranty runs out.
 
Brutto Bestia wrote:
cvcaelen...

Thanks for the post. Did the magazines mention if there were any signs of something
being wrong before teardown. It would seem a pump fractured into 4 pieces (although still
held together by mounting hardware) would be leaking oil from the bottom of the front cover.

BB
Click to expand...

The pump sts on the front of the crankcase inside the timing chest. Why would it cause an external leak? The part that fractures is the rotor anyway which turns inside a housing.

My guess is that there were a few poorly made rotors. It's not as if failures are commonplace but people seem to love preaching doom and gloom.

As for the pump design this changed in about 2007 from the old spur geaar type to the new trochoidal type. It's much the same design as used in the smallblocks ans is one of the commonest designs for oil pumps in the history of pumping oil.

Pete
 
I think I'll spend the $20.00 every 3,000 miles to run a Spectrochemical Analysis on my
(soon to be bought) Norge. I'm betting that an oil analysis would yield an alert for metal content.
So little money for peace of mind.
Murphy
 
cvcaelen wrote:
The only real fault they found was a broken oil-pump.
In Holland a test-Norge suffered the same broken pump.
Apparantly (sp???) it didn't affect the functioning and good lubing of the engine, pistons and such were in tip-top shape,
yet the pump (housing) fell in 4 peaces
Click to expand...
cvcaelen indicated the housing was broken into 4 pieces which would indicate to me that a leak into
the front chamber would be possible. But I would defer to those more knowledgeable and who
repair Guzzis for a living.
Regardless, it's certainly something to monitor closely. I'm wondering if an oil pressure guage might
detect the pump starting to go south.......BB
 
Brutto Bestia wrote:
cvcaelen wrote:
The only real fault they found was a broken oil-pump.
In Holland a test-Norge suffered the same broken pump.
Apparantly (sp???) it didn't affect the functioning and good lubing of the engine, pistons and such were in tip-top shape,
yet the pump (housing) fell in 4 peaces
Click to expand...
cvcaelen indicated the housing was broken into 4 pieces which would indicate to me that a leak into
the front chamber would be possible. But I would defer to those more knowledgeable and who
repair Guzzis for a living.
Regardless, it's certainly something to monitor closely. I'm wondering if an oil pressure guage might
detect the pump starting to go south.......BB
Click to expand...

As I thought my rendition of my experience mentioned, I have not had a single flicker of my oil-pressure light since the engine work. That was a regular occurence before the pump "retired."

So, yes, I think that the machine was trying to tell me something, and the something was not that the o/p sensor or the light wasn't working.

Bill
 
Bill Hagan wrote:
Brutto Bestia wrote:
cvcaelen wrote:
The only real fault they found was a broken oil-pump.
In Holland a test-Norge suffered the same broken pump.
Apparantly (sp???) it didn't affect the functioning and good lubing of the engine, pistons and such were in tip-top shape,
yet the pump (housing) fell in 4 peaces
Click to expand...
cvcaelen indicated the housing was broken into 4 pieces which would indicate to me that a leak into
the front chamber would be possible. But I would defer to those more knowledgeable and who
repair Guzzis for a living.
Regardless, it's certainly something to monitor closely. I'm wondering if an oil pressure guage might
detect the pump starting to go south.......BB
Click to expand...

As I thought my rendition of my experience mentioned, I have not had a single flicker of my oil-pressure light since the engine work. That was a regular occurence before the pump "retired."

So, yes, I think that the machine was trying to tell me something, and the something was not that the o/p sensor or the light wasn't working.

Bill
Click to expand...


I have never seen mine flicker while the motor was running so I am not to concerned about it, How long were you experiancinng the flickering before the melt down ?
 
I have never seen mine flicker either but by the time the light comes on, it's too late. My
thought was to get an aftermarket oil pressure guage whereby any degradation of oil
pressure from observed "normal" levels could be noticed before the light comes into play.
Mine is now out of warranty and I really don't care to finance any engine re-builds...BB
 
I have never seen mine flicker either but by the time the light comes on, it's too late. My
thought was to get an aftermarket oil pressure guage whereby any degradation of oil
pressure from observed "normal" levels could be noticed before the light comes into play.
Mine is now out of warranty and I really don't care to finance any engine re-builds...BB
Click to expand...

If you wrench your bike yourself and are that concerned it really is not that difficult to pull it and check for cracks.

1C9898EE313B2.jpg
 
draidt........My bike was one of the very early ones and MPH did all work during the warranty period. Since it's
of the same vintage as Bill H's bike, I think it is possible that a "batch" of pump components around that time
could be defective so your advice is well taken......Thanks......BB
 
Holy Fecking shite....I was going to take the Norge from Bundaberg to Darwin in April, some 3000klms. Maybe my oil pump might go. crikey should I leave it in the shed just in case and take the VII? No Guzzi made that too.

Fuck it I will go anyway :evil:

You can stay behind an worry about it all
 
AllenK.........I'm not suggesting anybody do anything. I'm merely highlighting
a potential issue which I've recently found is shared by others and has been
addressed by one esteemed member of the community.
What you do with your bike is your business.........Happy Trails
 
As draidt says, it may simply be worth it to check the pump not too long before the warranty expires, or to have it checked. I presume that *if* the thing is found to be broken, you'd get the hours spent checking it (1h? 2h?) reimbursed under warranty...
 
RJVB............Well.....although I have an excellent dealer w MPH in Houston, I would really doubt
that anything discovered at this point would be covered under warranty although one never knows
until you ask. Installing an oil pressure gauge is not really rocket science so that's probably the direction
I'll go since I have none of the symptoms of impending failure noted by others.......BB
 
Brutto Bestia wrote:
RJVB............Well.....although I have an excellent dealer w MPH in Houston, I would really doubt
that anything discovered at this point would be covered under warranty although one never knows
until you ask. Installing an oil pressure gauge is not really rocket science so that's probably the direction
I'll go since I have none of the symptoms of impending failure noted by others.......BB
Click to expand...

When you get the gauge on please post as I might go that route also, are you thinking of a panel wount gauge on the fairing ?
 
draidt.........I thought I'd research the topic and see if there's any wireless technology
associated w these gauges today but if not, go w a conventional electric system
w maybe a jack on the fairing and the guage in the visible part of the tankbag. Lots of
ideas now but nothing concrete. I've been told that clearance between the tank and
the oil spigot is pretty tight. We'll see. I will post when its completed.........BB
 
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