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Norge No Start

abbienormal

abbienormal

High Miler
GT Famiglia
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
899
Location
Niles, OH
I went to start the Norge today with no success. Probably the last good weekend in NE Ohio coming up and it fails. Sure glad I have a 1998 Honda sitting in the garage. I turned it on and everything cycled fine. I hit the starter and it started to engage then nothing. Now, if I hit the starter button I can hear the relay click but nothing else. I checked and had power to the solenoid on the starter but when I hit the starter I don't seem to get any power to the motor itself. Holding the headlights to flash so they are on then hitting the starter gets no dimming of the headlights. All the gauges remain lit and if I turn on the turn signals they keep flashing. Using a fuse tester all the fuses under the seat checked good. I did not pull them out though so the possibility of a corroded fuse connection may still exist. I took the ground wires near the starter and wire brushed them clean. Any suggestions? I did a search but found nothing similar to this.

Rudy
 
Hi Rudy

Sounds like your solenoid is hanging up. I just went thru this with my B11. It started during a road trip. I used a breaker bar to whack it (no starter cover) when it acted up -it worked. I later I tightened the battery terminals - worked fine for a couple of days but the symptoms came back, so I swapped out the starter. It works now, so I'll dismantle and clean up the starter on a raining day.

My bike only has 30k miles but it was housed in a barn with horses for the first 10k miles if its life. So, I expect it has some corrosion inside. What's with guzzis and barns anyway???
 
I tried hitting the solenoid with a 10mm T-Handle I had in my hand. Did not want to hit it any harder. Mine only has 22,000 miles and sits in a garage that is kept above freezing. Warmer when I work in there. I also suspect the solenoid. Just want to hear something better.

Rudy
 
Rewiring the start relay, if it hasn't been domne already, will help. But even then I did have a problem like this on the Norge. Turned out to be sticky dry grease in the solenoid, I cleaned it out and put some oil in there instead, and all has been good so far.
 
Battery is fine. I know you say this is well documented but either the search function on this site is lousy or I have not a clue how to use it. I went to the home page and sis a search for Startus Interruptus (copied directly from the reply whereas I may have spelled it wrong here) and got one post, the one to me. Then I did a search for starter and scrolled through the results till I saw that statement and then went to those posts.
Yes a fix is discussed and apparently the relay circuit goes bad. No description how or what goes wrong but at least Tod sells a fix. I went out and checked. Sure enough no energizing current to the solenoid. I guess I need to call Todd. I could mess with it myself but if an easy fix is available and I can throw a couple of bucks to the guy that figured it out, why not?


Rudy
 
The simple fix is to unplug the yellow wire from the start relay and replace it with a new wire direct from the battery positive terminal (ideally via an inline fuse) Tod's fix is a plug and play version of this.
The problem is that the yellow wire to the relay is fed via the ignition switch, and via a multitude of connectors on the way. Any or all of these can give a high resistance connection, particularly the switch contacts which are not rated for the current pulled by the solenoid. The above fix bypasses all this.
 
Thanks for the help on this. I find it unbelievable that a company would allow the same problem to exist for over 20 years when the fix involves adding an 8 inch wire to the harness and removing more than that from another lead. :roll: I pulled the yellow wire out of the connector and replaced it with another similar metal wire end that fit in the connector. I have an additional fuse box on my Norge for supplying power to the Powerlets I have in the fairing so I used an open fuse location and fed the power from there.
 
abbienormal said:
when the fix involves adding an 8 inch wire to the harness and removing more than that from another lead.
Click to expand...
I don't follow this solution. How about a diagram? Is this the same solution offered here? https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/188/7161.html

abbienormal said:
unbelievable that a company would allow the same problem to exist for over 20 years
Click to expand...

20 years? I was under the impression this is a problem with CARC bikes? That the voltage drop is do to the auto-disengage feature requiring the wiring to pass through the dash. All the starting issues I've had with older guzzis were a result of normal wear and tear - relays, brushes etc. On my Breva, I have had the partially rebuilt starter (brushes, springs and lube) installed for a week now and no sign of the previous starting problem. Didn't have to change any wire... We'll see if it lasts.
 
Rafael,

The 20 years is close to correct, but more like 30 or more. The small blocks have had the issue from the beginning.
 
Okay. No small blocks in my stable...

John Z., saw your link under the CARC heading. https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/196/4908.html This must be what abbienormal is talking about.

The starting problem doesn't occur right away. I'm wondering of the lower voltage to the solenoid causes the solenoid switch to arc and wear out prematurely.

Anyway, I'll read the linked thread above and get back if I have a question as to what to do.

thanks
 
I did the wire/fuse run to the battery and yellow wire connection a while ago, cured problem for a while, but this past weekend I once again got the dreaded no start thing. Luckily, I found if I held the starter button in, the engine would start in a few seconds. This is an 08 Sport with 20K on it. Have cleaned battery post, ground and sprayed all electrical connectors numerous times. Maybe time to pop for one of Todd's super light batteries. Will look into starter solenoid next. What is involved in dismantle?
Thanks, Paul
 
The link John Z. posted is exactly what I used to fix it. Thanks again. I guess this winter I will dismantle the starter solenoid, clean and lube it. I prefer to go over my bikes in the winter and expect a summer of no troubles. Moto Guzzi has been proving my method wrong all this year.

Rudy
 
2Laner said:
Will look into starter solenoid next. What is involved in dismantle?
Thanks, Paul
Click to expand...

If you download a parts manual, it has a good breakdown of the starter parts. Follow the breakdown and clean and lube the parts the solenoid moves.
 
Thanks John. As I am clueless, what do you recommend as a lubricant after cleaning for the solenoid shaft? Silicon spray, oil, or what? Always appreciate your helpful post. As an aside, what how many years are folks getting out of their OEM battery on average. Not looking to spend $ on battery, but wow, a ~10 pound weight loss on a new Shorai is impressive. Thanks again. Love this forum.
 
I got 2 years and 10 months from my battery. Keep an eye on the terminals as these seem to corrode more than any bike I have ever had. I live in NE Ohio and it sits for months at a time due to snow. I put an Optimate Charger on it every couple of weeks. I'd leave it on but I have other bikes and vehicles needing charged. Currently at 3 small battery chargers for the various types and sizes and still had to swap 2 of them around.

Rudy
 
2Laner said:
Thanks John. As I am clueless, what do you recommend as a lubricant after cleaning for the solenoid shaft? Silicon spray, oil, or what? Always appreciate your helpful post. As an aside, what how many years are folks getting out of their OEM battery on average. Not looking to spend $ on battery, but wow, a ~10 pound weight loss on a new Shorai is impressive. Thanks again. Love this forum.
Click to expand...

I would use a light grease, something water resistant. A generic white lithium would probably work well for the solenoid. As for battery life, my 2006 1100 Breva is still using the original battery. I only put a trickle charger on it for 24 hours once a month when I'm not using the bike.
 
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