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Norge Twin Spark Change

Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Hi all:

The 1200 Sport manual lists the changing of the inner "long life" plugs at 20k service, this doesn't seem a very long life (especially compared to cars) for a relatively low reving bike. Those people who have changed their plugs, did they look worn?

I just changed the outer plugs on my Sport at the 10k service, they were in great condition, and if it wern't for the warranty, I would not have bother changing them, and simply would have put the old ones back in.

I don't want to waste time / risk having problems changing the inner plugs if it isn't neccessary.

Jason
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Haven't changed inner plugs on my Norge yet, though likely will do so soon. Every report I have seen states that the inner plugs look great at first look, & lots of folks just put 'em back in. However, there is another reason also reported to at least get them out for a look at something like the suggested first interval. Namely, the recess in which the plug sits does not drain well, hence there tends to be a bit of corrosion in there from rain/wash water. Therefore, seems like a good idea to pull them out for a look, & more importantly, to apply anti-seize on the threads, whether you use new plugs or just put the old ones back in, just to avoid potential for plugs to sieze in the threads, & plugs to break off some time in the future.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

guzzibob wrote:
Haven't changed inner plugs on my Norge yet, though likely will do so soon. Every report I have seen states that the inner plugs look great at first look, & lots of folks just put 'em back in. However, there is another reason also reported to at least get them out for a look at something like the suggested first interval. Namely, the recess in which the plug sits does not drain well, hence there tends to be a bit of corrosion in there from rain/wash water. Therefore, seems like a good idea to pull them out for a look, & more importantly, to apply anti-seize on the threads, whether you use new plugs or just put the old ones back in, just to avoid potential for plugs to sieze in the threads, & plugs to break off some time in the future.
Click to expand...

That is the reason I changed out mine, to put anti-seize on them. My inner plugs looked great when I pulled them during the 12.5K service but I replaced them with new ones because I had them on hand. Now that the news ones are in with anti-seize applied, I don't think I will be changing them out for at least 24K more miles. Same with the air cleaner, as it looked almost like new when I looked at it during the 12.5K service. So, I'm thinking that it can do twice the recommended miles before it should really need changing.

How Guzzi comes up with the maintenance intervals I do not know. Outer spark plugs, transmission and rear drive oil that need changing at only 6K miles, along with inner plugs, fuel filter and the air filter that need to be changed out at 12.5K miles, come on. My Truck doesn't need its plugs changed for 60K miles and its air and fuel filters lasts for at least 30K miles. And that motor sucks in 3 times the amount of air from the same atmosphere and pumps three times as much fuel through the fuel filter that my Norge does. And my truck filters are not three times the size as the ones in the Guzzi. I only assume that Guzzi is trying to make more money for themselves and their dealers, after the sale. Or that they have to figure in that someone might be riding there bikes through the Sahara Desert regularly and need a more frequent maintenance schedule. What Guzzi should be doing is making their bikes as maintenance free as possible then pushing that point in their sales literature. They already have engine valves that are the easiest to adjust. Thank God they stuck with the screw adjusters instead of going to shims under buckets, like every other manufacturer has.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

When you look at other bikes like Japanese or German you'll find the same service-intervals or shorter and the same stuff to replace. You can't compare it with a car or truck. In general bikes make less km or miles in a year than an average car or truck does. I guess that's why the intervals ar shorter though to give them maintenance at least once a year.

Today I bought new tyres for my Breva at TLM today and I told them that I was going on trip to Norway. I guess that I'm going about 3000 km over the service-interval during my trip. Not a problem as long as you watch the oil levels. He checked the brakepads and oil levels and wished me a good trip.

Another thing I've read on this forum about the dashboard. You can't take it apart and rebuilt it. (as some already know :huh: )They tried it at TLM and the problem is the replacement of the indicators. So there is a point of no return.

Ciao Dolf.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Of course nothing is bound to happen, probably not even when you skip a service, as long as you keep oil levels in order. But things *may* happen that could be avoided ... like warranty going void ;)

What's that with the indictors, Dolf? Not the various lights, I presume? Those are supposed to be replaceable!
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

I put it in Dutch for you since I'm not sure about the correct English word for them and I haven't got a dictionary.

If you remove the "tellernaalden" you can't put them back on. That's the problem with tearing the dash apart. At TLM they took one apart just to see if it was possible...

I'm not coming back all the way from Norway when I reach 20000 km and then back to finish my holiday.... You will not know what that service interval is gonna cost then... :side: When I get serious problems I drop it of a fjord and call my insurance (I hope they don't read this forum...:blush: )
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

OK, I guess that'd be the counter hands. Interesting, if you have to take them off to disassemble the thing, and they then can't be put back on. I also wonder a bit why that'd be so...

I may not know what your 20k service is gonna cost, but I know what my 22k service cost me. Hope yours will be less... (ok, so I had a couple of extra things done...)

BTW, if you can pull off that stunt with the fjord, I presume you have a Santa clause in your contract, or something like that? B-) :silly:
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

I don't want to know what that service is gonna cost me, but it's gonna double up my holiday spendings I guess.
My plan is to find a beautiful young and rich Norwegian girl...... You get the picture.

Thanks for the translation, nice thing about this forum is that people don't comment on your language like I see sometimes on a Dutch forum. A few years and I speak and write OZ-English, USA-English and the Queens-English.

Ciao Dolf.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge or Sport

Sorry for the off topic response but is "ncassidy", the originator of this thread, the Nole Cassidy of Norge oil dispstick removal tool fame? I bought one of those tools and know someone else who is looking for one. Noel, if that is you and you are still selling the tools you can email me at alanp@integraeng.com. Thanks! Back to topic....
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Well, I certainly wish my holidays only cost me the price of a service ;) I estimate the regular service work cost me 400-500€, but a pair of new tyres plus a fork oil change (4h work billed for that!) blew the total price quite a bit beyond that sum :S

I sure hope we'll get the pictureS of that Norwegian, Rolf :p

Why would people comment on your language, knowing you're not an anglophone, other than with constructive criticism, or in zest? It's true I'm sometimes tempted to say something about hardly readable posts from the UK or USA, but I'll leave that to the really native speakers ;)
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Yea, that is I that started this thread. If you are in need of a dipstick tool, let me know where to send it. Will get one off to you as soon as I can. You can send payment upon receiving of the tool. There are more elaborate and costly alternatives out there, but I think the tool I provide works just fine. On another note, I just bought a "throttlemeister" for my Norge and plan on installing today. It was made for the Breva which I am in hopes that it is the same for the Norge.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

RJVB wrote:
Why would people comment on your language, knowing you're not an anglophone, other than with constructive criticism, or in zest? It's true I'm sometimes tempted to say something about hardly readable posts from the UK or USA, but I'll leave that to the really native speakers ;)
Click to expand...
In my experience, most people from the Nederlands speak better English than many in the UK. And I'm not talking of immigrants.

I work on the basis that I couldn't post in your language, so I admire the fact that you can do it in mine.
 
Re:inner plug removal on a norge

Oh, give it a couple more years, and Dutch will have become a dialect of (American) English, for all practical purposes (in other words — post as usual, and you're already about 1/3 the way of posting in current Dutch :S)
 
I bought a 2007 demo this summer and now it's time to change the plugs. The owners manual makes a point to say the top/second plug must be done by a dealer and that both be done at the same time. What is the issue with the second plug and is there are procedure to follow? The manual is no help and Guzziology doesn't cover.
Thanks,
Ken
 
Ken, outside of they're a PITA to get to (tank & air box has to be removed), it's recommended to use a plug plier tool (shown below) for boot removal, as they are quite fragile (fra-geel-ee) and usually break. It also takes a turned-down socket to get into the recess. I believe it's covered (with pictures) here on the Forum.

824asmall.jpg
 
If the norge uses the same airbox as the Breva, it doesn't need to be removed. Graham posted an excellent procedure in the old old forum, but in a nutshell.

Remove tank, remove plug cap. Blow out area with compressed air to prevent debris from falling into engine. Grind down the outside diameter of spark plug socket until it will fit down to the plug. You may or may not tape the socket to an extension to help hole it (Graham does, I don't). Remove plug, gap and install new plug with anti seize on the threads (it stays put for 12K miles). Do not over tighten. Install plug cap, and you are done.
 
Now I've read the posts suggesting that you should be able to leave the airbox in place to change the inner spark plugs. However, I can't even see the right one, let alone get my hand in there or even my turned down socket, with the airbox in place. So, my question is what's the best way to remove the airbox. Will it come off along with the intake hoses, leaving them connected at the airbox, or is it best to leave the intake hoses connected to the throttle bodies and separate the hoses from the airbox?

As a side comment -- nothing seems to be engineered these days for access and ease of maintenance. I would think that the airbox could have been altered a little to allow the wiring harness to be moved away from the frame rail thereby exposing the top of the right cylinders inner plug. I guess with Cad all they care about is if they can cram everything in.
 
nwrider said:
Now I've read the posts suggesting that you should be able to leave the airbox in place to change the inner spark plugs. However, I can't even see the right one, let alone get my hand in there or even my turned down socket, with the airbox in place. So, my question is what's the best way to remove the airbox. Will it come off along with the intake hoses, leaving them connected at the airbox, or is it best to leave the intake hoses connected to the throttle bodies and separate the hoses from the airbox?

As a side comment -- nothing seems to be engineered these days for access and ease of maintenance. I would think that the airbox could have been altered a little to allow the wiring harness to be moved away from the frame rail thereby exposing the top of the right cylinders inner plug. I guess with Cad all they care about is if they can cram everything in.
Click to expand...

Look again. Removing the airbox is unnecessary. You may need to move the wire harness a bit to see the plug, and you will never be able to get your hand down there. That is why you use the turned down socket, and stick the plug on a piece of tubing to get the threads started.
 
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