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Re: Bellagio mods

Front wheel is complete. I have used a 3.75" x 17" BST for an RS250 Aprilia (only because I have one). A better fit for a Griso could possibly be the BST for a Ducati Monster or SC1000. I had to make disc spacers 6.7mm thick and 2 new axle spacers.
The forks had been raised 13mm for the last 2 years, now back to stock as my new 17" tyre has precisely 13mm less radius than my old 18" front tyre. Can't say I'm the first with a carbon wheel on the front of a Guzzi, John in Hobart can claim that for his Norge.
New discs and 17" Bonneville SE guard to come
BST on Bella 0011

BST on Bella 0021

Might need Ti bolts for the discs ............................. and Ti axle would be nice too!
BST on Bella 0031
 
Ok, fitted my 120/70 Michelin Pilot Power 3 and front guard today. 2km test ride as the rain moved in. :cry:
Stock front wheel weighs 14.6kg complete, the BST is 10.6kg so a saving of 4kg.
Impressions; The front fees very light, even in a straight line and with lots of raised manhole covers on my road it completely absorbs the bumps and responds so well it's like there was nothing there. By comparison the rear reacts abruptly but almost like its delayed and it definitely gets air borne. Unsprung weight maybe?

Doing the left/right/left flick on a straight road it responds with amazing speed, with such little effort

Tomorrow has sunshine forecast. :D
 
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In the past I found that a light weight carbon front wheel made for quicker steering and yet more stable.
Truly worth the effort/expense.
 
BrakeTech Axis Iron rotors arrived today, pleasantly surprised as they are lighter than stock.

Stock Brembo: 4mm thick, semi floater, warped and weigh 1684g each.
Metal Gear disc: 4mm thick, semi floater, warped and weigh 1682g each.
Brake Tech disc: 5mm thick, full floater and weigh 1428g each.

Haven't got to the full wank of Ti bolts yet, if I do it will be more for the shiny look as my original bolts are dull and corroded.

Stock M8 x 20 bolts are 11g each (x 12 = 132g)
Stainless button head are 9g each (x 12 = 108g)
Titanium flanged hex head are 6g each (x 12 = 72g)
$120 to save 60g = $2/gr for weight saving, yep, that's a wank factor of
icon_geek.png

At least the front wheel has only cost me 37.5 cents per gram of weight saving, so far.
 
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I am also a fan of the BrakeTech Axis Iron rotors. Light weight, great feel. What pads are you going to run?
 
I have Brembo Sinter part #07BB05SA.
These are to suit my 999R calipers (4 pads each). I have emailed BrakeTech about them but no reply yet.

BrakeTech recommend Ferodo pads but mechanic here says they are a very hard pad, require heat to work and chew the discs.
Some heads up on your experience?
 
I have run a few different pads with iron rotors. Typically I prefer an organic pad or semi metallic pad with iron rotors. Full sintered pads are harder on the disc and iron discs are not as hard as stainless discs. There are a few organic pads, Ferodo had the CP911 pads, I think it has been replaced with the CP1 pads. They also rate their Platinum pads for iron disc use.
Another brand I have used with iron discs is SBS. Again, I used the less metallic pads with iron rotors, but it has been too long and I forget which compound it was. Probably doesn't matter as I doubt they still make the same pad.
The worst thing about brakes is that different riders, different bikes, different brake set ups, all seem to require different pads to work as desired. I used some high dollar EBC pads on my supermoto and was amazed at how well they worked. So I bought the same pads for my Daytona with Suzuki front brakes (dual discs, but I would think basically the same brakes) and they did not work well at all. I don't know why. Perhaps it was more HOW the pads were being used. The supermoto was being raced and the brakes got seriously hot. Without that heat the brakes may not generate the same amount of friction. Plus you have the individual preferences for bite and feel. And the different types of rotors work better with different pads.
 
Performed some plastic surgery today.

There was a 0.006" variation in resin depth at the centre which equated to 0.036" side to side run out at opposite sides of the rim.

Admittedly, it would be nothing to worry about as tyres can be worse than that, and the front wheel has both a + and - 0.020" deflection from centre, at adjacent spokes. We have not modified the front hubs, just added disc spacers and new axle spacers to fit Bella.
 
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Update, saved another .5kg on the front by using BrakeTech Axis Iron discs.
Total front wheel weight saving - 4.5kg
But get this, forum member sent pm with pictures. Apparently Stelvio's and RSV4 Aprilia's come with Grimeca discs, same dimensions yet 4.5mm thick. Stelvio has steel carrier but Aprilia has alloy carrier and is 200g lighter than the very expensive BrakeTech. Grimeca only available direct from Piaggio/Aprilia dealers at 122 Euro and 1244g each.

Rear wheel carbon only, weighs 2315g
Rear alloy hubs that I removed but without a sprocket weighed 2555g (4.87kg no disc or tyre)
Billet 4340 blanks for axle were over 10kg, hoping we can turn most of that into swarf.

We started with 4.6kg of billet alloy round bar, down to 1072g so far but more machining to complete yet.
20140808 161859

Pete took 20 hours just to make this radius tool, thankfully for somebody else. I just get the benefit
20140811 141025


.
 
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You know how they say, "Measure twice, cut once". Yeah like we measured everything about 5 times.
Printed all drawings at actual size, glued to thin cardboard and cut out for a two dimensional trial fit. Discovered small error and made adjustments to suit. Repeat exercise and double check until we are happy. Even made some bits out of wood for a cheap mock-up.

Purchase Titanium nut from Pro-Bolt, M33 x 1.25mm. Their part # is TINUT33125002. Actually instructed by Pro-Bolt agent the part # will tell me everything I need to know for accurate fitment. Checked all their finer details including flange dia. socket size, height and of course, the pitch.

After machining thread on end of axle with 1.25mm pitch ...................... we checked the nut ............... and it doesn't fit. :mad:
Nut measures 1.5mm pitch. :oops:

Just had a call from Pro-Bolt, in their own computer is the same part # followed by either Z1 (front of bike), Z2 (rear of bike) and Z3 (centre of bike). Z2 is also listed as having a pitch of 1.5mm. Doh!

That'll be AUD$81.05 plus postage thank you. Original nut was sourced from USA at US$35 on special. But as they say,
"The bitterness of poor quality, lingers long after the sweetness of cheap price".
 
If you have any concerns about my engineering design, check out this ZX14 with billet single sided swingarm and 240 wide rear tyre.
Take notice at the 2:07 mark and the axle, hubs and splines. If this handles 200+HP and drag racing etc. my bike will be very safe.



My shaft is 40mm dia. has 36 splines, has to support less weight and less than half the power. I'm cool!
 
OK, just cost $300 for the splines to be cut. Neat job. The 2 small pieces are offerings to the God of Speed.
Total weight of both hubs, 1015g. But they are to have the outer circumference machined, leaving them with 5 fingers for mounting to the carbon centre. Left hub will be counter bored (x 8) for CARC bolt heads. Getting lighter. BST Hubs 001
 
Thanks for the continued posts. Don't guess you'll consider doing a batch run of these eh?
 
Certainly Todd,
but would have to do some careful research first. I have used a 5" rear rim because I specifically wanted to run a narrower rear tyre (160/60) for turn in. My 76rwhp doesn't warrant a 180+ tyre. I gather most people would prefer the stock 5.5" rim size and some may even want a 6".

Two problems, will a 6" rim fit without being spaced off centre?
Depending which BST wheel people order, I will need to determine the carbon thickness at the hub, and I see by BST drawings that there are different bolt patterns for the alloy hubs.

Another concern Todd, do I just supply the machined bits and let other people dismantle and separate the BST hubs from the carbon, you may have the ability but Fred Nerd will be a worry with a big hammer in his hand.

As for front wheels, would just need a donor Griso, Sport, Breva & Norge as there are differences in front ends. But if Guzzi have used the same triple clamps across the range then I would assume disc spacing should also be similar.

I would also love to donate my time for developing a wheel set for the Tonti Le Mans range, if somebody has a donor bike and dosh for wheels.
BST make 3" x 18" wheels for HD Sportsters, I understand Hardly's don't have a cush drive in the wheel and the early Guzzi's do, but this we can over come.

Having a slight hold up with my machinist mate Pete, he has a bit of work on at the moment but it is only fair to let him earn full price while he can. Next job is cutting axle splines to match the hubs for a precise fit, ..................... but Pete can make a tool for that.
 
Ok, Pete is machining axle splines as I type.
I've been to visit the local composite material guys, got a tour of the warehouse and got touchy feely with multiple samples.
Compared bonding agents etc. with BST production methods and came away with Araldite, yep Araldite.
Not the $2.00 five minute stuff from the corner store, K138 is $150 for 1.4 litres (2 tins).
Hey Todd, that's enough for a bakers dozen I reckon.

Place your orders now ..........................................;)
 
Well I did a track day on Wed, but still with the stock rear wheel ........................................ bugger!

Today we trial fitted a few bits ................


Disc carrier will be finished next week, it holds the axle in place.




Ok guys, I want to anodize the outside hub RED to match the front disc buttons. Opinions?
 
Done!

Front saved 4.5kg, rear saved 4,2kg, whole bike is 204kg with half a tank.
BST HUBS 3 009

BST HUBS 3 010
 
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Work of art... well done! Thanks for the post, and I'll likely be bugging you for more info on this direct.
 
Initial ride report;
Both BST wheels - new PP3 rear tyre 160/60 on a 5" rim (stock is 180/55 on 5.5" rim)
Front weight saving of 4.5kg ......... rear saving 4.2kg

Steering, turning, manoeuvring and leaning is done with such ease, minimal input and still with great precision.
Round-a-bouts are real fun, the speed it will change direction is quite amazing ................ this is a cruiser right?
Leaves me with the impression of just gliding smoothly into and out of corners with just a thought of where I want to go as provocation.

Only managed about 60k suburban ride today, yet was amazed that the new rear tyre has already made contact from edge to edge, I wasn't pushing or trying to lean hard, just riding for fun. So Bella has either run out of lean angle or, ................................... corners so amazingly well, in such a confidence inspiring way, that it beggars belief.

I'm not bullshitting or waxing lyrical here, but it just turns so well that it feels like for a given set of parameters (speed, degrees etc) it will use a shorter radius. A much shorter radius.

Tonight I emailed Pat, Elpresidente of Guzzi club Qld, he has a close to stock Bellagio, I think we need to go for a ride and swap bikes.
For those from the land of the free, where oppression prevents ownership of this vessel. Its just a Cali EV with all the bullshit removed, a twin plug head and short stroke crank, and that heavy CARC thingy hanging off the arse end.
I should put saddle bags and tassles and white wall tyres on it. :mask:

Bruno Saturno & Guiseppe Ghezzi coined the phrase ............ "To increase the agility in the flip-flop considerably". This I have achieved, and I am happy!
 
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