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Sad day

Hi there LoftyJohn,

You say you still have you big red Stelvio, does that mean it has been fixed again, or are you still going ahead with the rejection and not bothering with Guzzi again. Its a real shame for you, I hope it is all resolved soon ! Fingers crossed for you as to a good end to your storey, keep us posted as to the outcome.
Best of luck

Cheers Nige
 
I rode all the Benells this summer and wasn't really impressed. The engine has great power and the triple is oh so smooth but it was a noisey thing! Everything about seemed cheap to me. Several of other guys with me however liked it so to each his own. After hearing of all the Stelvio trouble I must admit I would now put the KTM at the top of the list.
 
Lofty, you should have mail..........dont like this site's mail pages,
Meet up any time.
Going to the NEC bike show 5 Dec, gonna give the Guzzi stand some shite, lol
 
Gary wrote:
Wasp, unless your 7 foot tall withlegs like a giraffe, forget the KTM.
The dash is crap too.......sort of Tesco's looking.
Click to expand...

Thats true they are tall. Actually i forgot about the new F800GS, nice bike not to huge so you can actually off road with it. I haven't ridden one yet but the local dealer has bunch of them. That new vert twin (Rotax) is great engine.
 
Actually i forgot about the new F800GS, nice bike not to huge so you can actually off road with it. I haven't ridden one yet but the local dealer has bunch of them. That new vert twin (Rotax) is great engine.
Click to expand...

F800 is a nice bike. I rode one of the road versions and was very impressed. Handled well, good brakes & crisp responsive engine. The owner regularly got high mpg when touring 2 up much to the annoyance of the others on a recent European trip who were riding other BMWs, Pan Europeans & Gold Wings.

BUT the fuel gauge on the F800GS tells lies. I had to rescue a journalist road testing one. He was not happy pushing a fully laden bike along the hard shoulder! The gauge told him he still had enough fuel for another 35 miles despite the tank being bone dry......and I've heard others complaining of exactly the same false reading. Of course when the road test was published he did mention how "the nicest people ride Guzzis" etc etc. :)
 
I read a review a while ago comparing, for once, not various bikes, but various fuels - brand vs. supermarket, 95 vs 98, you get the drift. They used a single bike, an F650GS or however that smaller (sort of?) predecessor of the 800GS is called. Apart from their main conclusion (which was far from clear), they were impressed with the bike.

But then, that's what you usually get when a mag tests a bike, no ... ?
 
I owned one of the F650 competion models the XChallenge 650, great bike the engine was strong and it was a blast. It had air ride rear suspension which was incredibly good but the bike sat extreamly high and was a bit of a problem in the woods trails I often ride. To be honest it was an Aprilia with BMW body work, even some parts came in Aprilia bags. I sold it and bought a DR350 which is better in the woods trails but as good in the open stuff ...trade off I guess.

DSCF1759.jpg
 
Well it looks like I am joining the ranks of the Stelvio-lers with valve problems. Took it for its first service (900 miles) with an increasing "ticking" at the top end. I thought it was cam chain! Turns out the valves were clearing 3-4mm. On further investigation the valve "hats" (sorry don't know the tech name) were actually broken off.

Garage has been on to MG and they will either send new kits or recommend a rebuild. Will phone tomorrow to find out.

As more experienced MG riders I wondered if I could ask you guys a couple of Qs?

1. This, to me, is shaping up to be a specific design fault. If it is do you think MG will honour this and recall/redesign?
2. The guy at the garage said MG were "cancelling the warranty on these parts" but then issuing kits etc. What does that mean? can they cancel a warranty?!

For my sins my car is a 2001 Landrover Freelander which has no end of head gasket/overheat problems which Landrover won't recognise. I really don't want to get stuck with a bike with the same attitude from the manufacturer. If, on the other hand, they act honourably I will happily stick with the Stelvio as I love the thing already.

Thanks

Douglas
 
Sorry to hear of your problems.

I wonder if the factory have issued any notices / bulletins to dealers about any potential issues / causes.
 
Not according to the ServiceMotoGuzzi site. Mind you with typical aplomb they are telling me that Axone 6.0.4 is available for upgrade but of course the download link hasn't been put on the site:S . hy am I unsurprised?

I can't see why this is happening only to Stelvios if they are being properly maintained? I've just checked the parts list and both the Griso and the Stelvio use the same cams, the RH one is 976445 on both bikes. Now it *could* be that there was a bad batch of cams and or followers, I'd be interested to know whether these failures are occuring in any sort of sequential run or whether they are machines with very similar assembley dates?

My guess is that the tops getting knocked off the valve stems is a result of cam/tappet wear. Once the cams or tappets have worn sufficiently for the lash-cap to pop off, because the stems are so slim the adjuster is going to have a chance to 'Hook' itself on the side of the stem a it slams into the top of the valve and inflict gross sideways force. Do that a few times and I'm not surprised the tips snap off! Th odd thing in my book is that they didn't snap at the collet groove in the valve and you should be very grateful for that!!!!

One of the things I will keep repeating like some sort of demented mantra is that it is VERY important that maintenance IS actually carried out. Unlike most modern Japanese bikes, (And my Aprilia!) where valve lash adjustments are seen as almost optional it is VITAL, especially in the early period of ownership, for valve lash to checked religiously when specified. With my 8V I checked the clearances before I pressed the bike into service, they were very wide. I adjusted them to what they should be and re-checked at 800Km only to find that they had all closed right up. I adjusted them again and ran the bike until 5000km and checked em again and they had changed very little, checking AGAIN at 8,000km revealed that all change seemed to have effectively stopped. From this random sample of one :laugh: I am working on the principle that there is a fair bit of settling in of various bits and bobs in the valvetrain which hasn't been a problem for ME but if the workshop that is servicing the bike is less than scrupulous, or simply assumes that the valve lash doesn't need adjusting on a 'Modern' bike you may well end up with the clearances either too large or too small. Too large and the tappets will not begin to lift on the rampings of the cams and the tappet and opening flank will cop a flogging, too small and they may close up when the engine is hot causing the tappet to ride the base circle of the cam. either of these scenarios can have catastrophic results that manifest themselves as..... Ta-Da!!!!!! Cam and tappet failure even if the hardening is all done correctly.

Pete
 
Douglas - Bugger!

But FWIW, We have an MGF with the same engine as your Freelander with exactly the same issues, we have just replaced the head gasket twice in less than 2000Km to try and get a good one, but even worse MG/Rover are now non existant!

However, from watching MG and their response to these type of issues for a couple of years now I would say that it is likely that they or the dealer will not let you down. It might take some time and the parts might take a while to gather together, but basically my observation of MG since buying my Breva three years ago is that although many complain bitterly about them they seem to be very reasonable.

So, although it's easy for me to say, I would stick with it for a while. The other thing is that it seems that it often has to do with the dealer - there have been many reports of passionate Guzzi dealers going the extra mile when an MG response was questionable - something I have not expreienced that often with other brands (Honda, MG/Rover and Land Rover are a case in point).
 
Hi Douglas, sorry to hear about your troubles. If you check my old posts, you'll find I had the same prob. The 3mm disc part of the cam follower had completely worn away, not snapped off and floating around.........GONE. the others were at various stages of dementure.
The dealer contacted Italy and the parts were shipped , arriving in four days. They sent the complete cam assembly all assembled , shaft, bearings , followers etc. I was assured a full rebuild was not needed as the return oil path was direct to the sump then the oil would be filtered.
Dont forget this was after 9400 miles. I've looked in to it a bit and it does seem to be just the UK spec bikes. I had the first service at 650 miles, and interim oil and filter at 3300 miles, service at 6500 miles and was just going to do another oil change at 9500m.
Since fitting the new bits it's been quiet and had another "1st service" at 9870 miles.
I take it you got a UK bike ? Hope so otherwise your all in for it lads.........
 
Gary wrote:
I was assured a full rebuild was not needed as the return oil path was direct to the sump then the oil would be filtered.
.....[/quote]

Well, I hope you're right but remember the filter is AFTER the oil pump. All that crap from the cam and tappets will have gone through the pump and if that gets damaged....... This is one of the reasons why there were repeated failures of the Hydraulic lifter motors, the pump wasn't checked and in most of the ones I did the recall on the pump was cactus.

Also the 8V has a twin rotor pump, one rotor delivers lubricating oil and this is definitely filtered but the second one delivers all the cooling oil for the under-piston jets and head cooling etc. I don't know if this is filtered or not without checking but given the size of the jets for the pistons I'd think it would be very easy to clog 'em with bits of crap. If you hole a piston I think you'll be able to guess why.

I'm not suggesting that you are in line for an iminent failure, simply that if it was me doing the job I would of pulled the oil pump/s too.

Pete

PS. The sump was pulled and cleaned out wasn't it?
 
Sump was taken off and cleaned out. As I said before I'm intending on 30,000 mile before the warrenty is through so I'll decide on keeping after 20 months ownership.
As the song goes.........."Allway's look on the bright side of life" hehehe... if you know the Monty Python song, bet your singing it all day long now
Refering back to the last posts, the cams themselves were pretty well untouched, a little wear, the problem definately was in those followers.
 
Don't want to tempt fate here but my Stelvio is fine so far. I bought it from Moto Strada, who are a Guzzi main dealer as opposed to one of the dealers who have simply added the franchise recently to their range of other marques.

If incorrect valve adjustment does turn out to be the cause, then I would expect no failures from the likes of Corsa Italiana, Moto Ecosse and Moto Strada who all have a reputation for decent Guzzi spannering.

Maybe the bikes have come from dealers who are more used to other marques and don't give the necessary thoroughness to bike preparation and servicing.
 
Pete, if this issue were just down to sloppy servicing, one would expect it to occur everywhere, and on all the models with this particular engine. No? So far, it does seem to be isolated to bikes built for the UK (and possible Ireland?)
 
I know of one 8V in Oz that ate a cam. It was sold and serviced by someone I trust implicitly which is why I don't entirey rule out a bad batch of parts. What I would say though is that I have heard of no evidence of systemic failure and although I admit to being conspicuously anal about my 8V simply because it IS a new design and manufacture. If others are less anal it could be the source of the problem.

Pete
 
so what you're saying, implicitly, is that those Brits are particularly, erm, inanal?? :silly:

(must say it does remind me of a line from Trainspotting :D )
 
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