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"SERVICE !" display

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Brian,
In my simple terms, the old "red warning light" was so much more successful. Switch on, oil light comes on, start engine, light goes out - you know you've got pressure. Light comes on when you're running and it's declutch/switch off pronto.
A warning that comes on because there was a smidgen of pressure holding the switch open when you last restarted (and you won't know until you've stopped, done the digital alarm clock reset and found you've got DSB 07 - again!) doesn't rank as progress, especially as the magic oilcan symbol would illustrate DSB 08 with the same "Service" warning.
A new sender for my R100CS engined special was £12 - it provides both electrical signals for the oil pressure guage and a separate circuit for the oil warning light. The Breva sensor seems to be around 4 times that price and lives underneath/behind the alternator between the pots - not easy to get at (whether for replacement or simple connection contact cleaning). It would make more sense to delete the DSB 07 error message from the system altogether (rather than after each appearance). I believe I'm riding the wrong bike.
 
Hmm, All this talk of the dreaded DSB07 error is wonderful. Thanks a lot you guys, by making me read this particular thread, my Sport has caught this particular bug. Just got back from a 2200 km ride to a rally and back (Ruptured Budgie) and this error came up often. I checked the oil level (just in case) and was in the middle of nowhere when it first popped up.

Stopping the engine and turning ignition off for a while seemed to be the "cure". I guess I now need a new sensor or to check the wiring/connections.

This is worse than the flu - so contagious.
 
Greybeard, do you not think an ECU check to make sure the pressure switch is operating correctly is an advantage?
So you get a smigeon of muck lodged between the contacts in the switch, and then you have an oil pressure problem, you would never know as the light would not come on, until, that is, you hear that pleasing dagga dagga noise and the engine stops of course.
I know which I prefer.

Of course you could always put some black tape over the warning lights.
 
Hi Brian,
I'm used to a "warning light" and an analogue display of pressure (on the R100 it's 4 to 5 bar running and 2 bar ticking over, warning light off). Having an electronic digital idiot telling me "you may or may not have a problem, but here's a warning anyway" only serves to irritate. I'd prefer to have a digital indication of which gear I happen to be in. I understand you've had a mechanical failure - was the electronic warning a help?

Like most people, I carry about with me a grey, spontanoeusly reactive lump capable of instant reaction to input. I don't need "Sod it, there's DSB 07 again - what was the service code so I can delete it?"

In "simple soul" mode, exactly what is the potential harm in "residual oil pressure" when you last switched on, sufficient to need a "refer to Moto Guzzi dealer"? Even a sheared oil pump doesn't generate residual oil pressure (unlike cold, "thick" oil, which does).

As riders of modern Moto Guzzis, is it generally assumed we have no cognitive awareness of what our machines are doing, without a puerile digital system that says 'you may have a problem' (or alternatively, 'you may have a sub-standard sensor' or even ' the italian connection between this digital alarm clock system and the shaky sensor has registered a digital anomaly')?
 
Yes! You're riding the wrong bike!

If the fact that an $8.00 sender switch going bung is enough to make you start carrying on like a little girl at the beach with sand in her 'gina then you're never going to be happy. I suggest you sell the bike and buy a bus pass.

Pete
 
Hi Pete,
Had a bus pass for some while now. I had thought that 'progressing' to a modern Guzzi would be an advantage - fortunately I have other machines to ride reliably. Amusing thought that italians, having failed miserably at producing reliable electrics, have compounded the situation by adding digital aids. $8?! At the current rate of exchange that's $89 - small girls with sandy parts: that's decades ago. I barely remember the interest.

No, I'd much rather have a bike that works sensibly - this latest one doesn't, but many thanks for your input.
 
I always find the comments about 'Italian Electrics' amusing since from the mid seventies on all the older Guzzis used exactly the same charging system as BMW and their switchgear although a bit fragile was fine unless it was abused. In the '90's they adopted the same style of switchgear as Honda, those paragons of unreliability and apart from a rather weak alternator and persistent earthing problems, (Especially on the spineframes.) that led to blown regulator rectifiers if not dealt with by a five minute fix they are fairly bulletproof electrically.

With the CARC bikes, pre 8V, the same switch is used as has been used since time immemorial, it's used on some Aprilias too. If it gets wet they will sometimes short to earth. If they are left wet or occasionally if you're just unlucky they are prone to failure. Swapping one out is no big deal, if it was I'd remember, I've changed a few in my time. Official recomended retail on the switch over here is $32.87 for the Aprilia part #641541 Strangely enough the identical Guzzi part GU31768780 has a rec-retail of $18.56! :lol Rick and Gordon will sell you one for less!

http://www.mgcycle.com/advanced_search_ ... &x=10&y=12

Try Agostinis and Stucchi and you'll probably get one even cheaper! Who are you buying your parts off that they want $89 for a poxy switch. I'm sure even the pommy suppliers will have one no more expensive than our rec-ret? Have you tried Corsa in Colliers Wood or wherever they are now or one of the other AM suppliers in the UK or is it just the fact you like being a luddite and having a whinge?

The B11 is a fine, solid, if IMHO, slightly dull motorbike but it has no generic flaws that can't be fixed easily by a comptent home mechanic for a few bucks in 15 minutes but I suppose its much easier to simply damn it out of hand and then complain volluably on the internet.

Pete
 
So you've no idea what DSB 07 is intended to protect either?

I agree, the B11 is solid and heavy, if a bit dull. I also agree that the same electrical components appear elsewhere - but Honda manages to hook them up so they work reliably. Electrical gremlins on the 750T were almost totally connector generated: the BMW oil-head that followed that was positively boring by comparison - it was ever-ready, but needed a sixth gear. The Breva V1100 filled that gap.

I dispute ability to change a sensor in 15 minutes (tank disconnect, remove work your way down ), but £58.56 was the on-line quote from a mainstream Guzzi dealer in the UK. I expect I can trace and source the equivalent part, but that's not the point.

For the last 40 0dd years, I've maintained and repaired my own vehicles, including a 76 year old car owned since 1973, hand-built an aluminium R100 special that regularly takes us to the South of France and a host of bikes including Ariels (you probably don't recall them),Enfields, BMWs, Guzzis and many British bikes of the 60s and 70s. I've "spannered" as Pit Crew for 24 Hour endurance racers - no luddite here

I've got the Breva - there's no point in selling it on to someone else. Can you explain why DSB07 is necessary? Solve that for me and I'll go away
 
P;ease, I don't need a history lesson. I was born the year Guzzi pulled out of GP so that either makes me seven years younger than you or eight years older going by your web name.

There are two basic errors for oil pressure related issues.

One of them relates to what is detected as a pressure fail while the engine is actually running. This will be thrown uo if the switch shorts to earth due to water ingress or whatever while the motor is running. The other one will throw up a warning if a no pressure situation is detected on start up. This is usually thrown up if the oil filter is not pre-filled after a change as if the dash doesn't detect pressure within a couple of seconds of start up it triggers an alarm.

Both are good, useful features that may save your motor is something serious shits itself. Unlikely, but it can happen. If you find it too chalenging by all means go back to the stone age. I have hand scraped babbit bearings for internal combustion engines. It sucked. Give me 'Modern' and 'Clever' any day.

Pete
 
Having stumbled upon this topic this morning, I had to go back to the first post just to be sure. All I can say is "Wow!".

This gentleman with the purported tons of experience yet the inability to read or change out a simple switch because it is under the tank, certainly does cause me some early morning "Stress", and I remember my Dad's definition of that word...

Stress - The confusion caused when one's mind overides the body's natural desire to choke the living shit out of some asshole that desperately needs it! :evil:

Yes sir, I think I'll start complaining about why my Subaru doesn't have 4 wheel drum brakes which were so much easier to work on than those newfangled disk thingies... :lol:

Greybeard65...you need to go back and read what you have written. You whine and complain beyond belief. Truly.
 
Im pretty sure you don't even have to take the tank off. Worst case senario you have to de-mount the LH header pipe to geta spanner on the sender but I'm sure I've swapped 'em out without even doing that.

Old silverbeard also lives in Kings Lynn. That's about 30 miles from Haywards, one of the most highly respected dealers in the UK. A simple phone call would of netted him a switch and advice on installing it or he could off simply ridden down and they might even of fitted it for him on the spot. Much, much more satisfying apparently to bluster and whine about how terrible the bike is and how its ruined his life. Dear god, no wonder I left the UK!

Pete
 
Pete,
I know Dave (silverbeard) well. Before his move to Dereham, he was also Enfield local guy, when in Shipdam. He's "let his Guzzi dealership go". We've bought a quantity of small-block, old stock from him and (two assembled bikes later) I was speaking to him about 'spare gearbox stock, just last week. Haywards are 48 miles away just outside Cambridge.

Yes, I've tracked down a potential replacement oil sender and crush washer at reasonable cost. Yes, I can see it, tucked away behind the offside exhaust header, sadly shielded by the Hepco-Becker engine bars on my bike. To get to it, the tank, airfilter and housing has to come off (the tank, as you will know, has the unfathomable twist-off fuel pipe connectors). A pain in the butt, but do-able.

My ire (Scott Mastrocinque: you'll either have to look that up, or ask your Dad) is that I can replace the sender and STILL get DSB 07 warnings. Dave "Silverbeard''s reaction to that was "why change the sender? Just delete the error warnings, the connection to the sender is often unreliable".

Which brings me back to "why DSB 07"? If I switched the 750T on, warm but not hot and got no oil light, I'd think "oil's probably still cold/too dense, preventing the switch diaphragm closing the contacts". You guys that rely on the digital Muse get a "refer to Guzzi dealer" prompt: my dashboard says so.

I've got the measure of this now, thanks. DSB 07 residual pressure warning - yawn. DSB 08 - minimal/nil oil pressure - cause for concern. Such is progress. FWIW Pete,..... 7 years' younger than me and - no, that's not important.

That would seem to be the end of this thread.
Once again, thanks for your input.
 
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