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The word on Ping

Jon,

Could I talk you into letting me try your ECU for a few miles?

While it COULD be a temp sensor, Todd hooked it up to a vstd and it read exactly what it should have, at the time. As i recall, it was about 215, measured maybe a minute after shutting off.

I did try the thermal mastic trick, which made no difference.
 
Sure, Todd has it and he's already reflashed it. Just bring it back as I want my Griso sorted fairly soon. I've got a few things to line up with Todd as well, some other stuff I need plus tires.
Cheers,
jon
 
So just an update for everyone who is curious:

Today i went up to Todd's house, and test rode my bike with 4 different ECU's. Before each test, all TPS's were set to 4.6 degrees.

Ambient air temp was about 92-95 degrees, and got as hot as 98 near the intersection of mullholland/LV, according to my dash.

3 of the units performed almost identically. They all pinged in exactly the same way, by exactly the same amount. Jon's ECU was smoother, for some reason. Still pinged the same way, but the bike ran SLIGHTLY smoother. But all and all, no appreciable difference from mine. (It is odd though, they do seem to have some minor personality to them)

However, one ECU BARELY pinged at all. This ECU was for a 2v 1200 sport, which has some minor pinout differences, and wont run my digital display, but it worked PERFECTLY (other than the service light on the dash and no speedo). Apparently though, this unit came from outside the US, so i wonder if it was timed differently for different fuel?

Anyway, all the US model griso ECU's performed the same way.

So now you know. :geek:
 
So either some sensor/cable or combustion chamber oddity on your bike, i.e. wrong gasket thickness or slightly miss placed rpm sensor giving an offset to the TDC sensing...
What about the incoming air temp sensor (not the engine temperature one)?
 
I actually modified my squish band on my cylinders, which apparently for the v11s, usually fixed the problem, despite the CR increase. In my case, it made no difference. It just made my bike faster. So yes, my combustion chamber is diferent, but no, that's not the cause of the problem.

While i had the heads off i looked for hotspots but could find none.

the incoming air temp sensor reads a little higher than the dash, but that's to be expected since the air temp sensor sits right above the engine, and the dash doesn't.
 
You're welcome Andrew. It needs to be stated that we resolved the vast majority of your ping issues yesterday.

Pete/Jon's ECU has my conventional flash for the Griso 11, whereas all of the others had your most recent revisions prior to yesterday, including the Euro Sport ECU... so there is no way any of the fuel or timing data was different in any way. That said, no arguing the difference in feel I guess. I look forward to a final report from you here on the last revision yesterday to your ECU.
 
I wanted to post this, but I didn't mention it because you seemed unsure when i asked you yesterday about posting it.

So to fill yall in, since there have been numerous others who are chronic pingers like me, todd was gracious enough to make multiple revisions, and i spent all day (6 hours actually) riding up and down piuma, and across mullholland, trying to isolate the ping to specific throttle and rpm ranges, and take corrective action, depending on the outside air temp.

Yesterday was a perfect day to do this, since we were trying to chase bad manors at high temps. Since it was hotter than holy hell, there were no other bikers, which meant no cops, which means total freedom and unlimited traction, riding freshly paved canyon road. :D

So in the end, the bike does not feel as though it has lost any power anywhere, and it pings MUCH less. I would now say it is not longer a "problem", like it used to be. It now runs in 104 degree weather the way it used to run in 84 degree weather.

We projected the changes to lower temps, and hopefully it won't ping much at all at reasonable temps. I dont typically ride in 104 degree weather.

When i get some more time, riding in REASONABLE temps, i will report back again.

Thanks again Todd!
 
Spaceclam said:
I wanted to post this, but I didn't mention it because you seemed unsure when i asked you yesterday about posting it.
Click to expand...
My pleasure, and I simply thought that you were going to put some time in on it before posting... no worries though, appreciated, and again my pleasure. Happy to help get it sorted.
 
Spaceclam said:
...but the bike ran SLIGHTLY smoother...
Click to expand...

There is always the slim chance that this ECU had slightly different analog-to-digital conerter behavior getting slightly different measurements through the analog temp sensors. You know, slight;y different tolerances but made a difference as you are in the grey region all the time.
 
IT depends on where you live. Some gas stations, you will see a sign under the prices that says "trick" or "vp" or something. they usually have a seperate pump for the 100 octane, but not always.

It's $8 a gallon though.
 
Yeah, but the 100 octane fuel Spaceclam is talking about is 100 octane American race fuel. .It is not always street legal but is sold at some gas stations in some areas for racing use.
 
I've never had a problem with pinging even riding in 100°F (~38°C) on my 8v, though I do live at 5280' (1600m) and put 91 octane (US) in.
 
So just a heads up to everyone here:

82 degrees F, 40% humidity, running 91 octane at 500' above sea level. 10 mins of city driving warm-up, with some 50mph stretches.

Took it on the freeway, 65mph in 6th gear (about 4k rpm) and PINNED it, all the way up to 100mph. Nothing.

I kept trying, repeating it over and over again. after a few times, i got a clink or two. :eek:hmy: Who's bike is this again!?

This was on level ground, so it may ping a little bit doing the same thing up a hill or something, but then again, i was TRYING.

Since nothing was changed EXCEPT in the problem area, the bike isn't any slower, at all, anywhere. :)

I was really treating it rough for about 10 mins, and it stood up to it.

I will continue to report as the weather changes around here, but so far, 100% SUCCESS!

The only thing is, i wish it would be further constrained to specific gears. but oh well. IM STILL HAPPY :lol: :D :lol: :D :lol:
 
You brought in a good point MuffinMan ...."though I do live at 5280' (1600m)"

I copied this from WIKI
The MAP pressure sensor ....the data is used to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn determines the required fuel metering for optimum combustion.

The following example assumes the same engine speed and air temperature.

Condition 1:
An engine operating at WOT (wide open throttle) on top of a very high mountain has a MAP of about 15" Hg or 50 kPa (essentially equal to the barometer at that high altitude).
Condition 2:
The same engine at sea level will achieve 15" Hg of MAP at less than WOT due to the higher barometric pressure.

The engine requires the same mass of fuel in both conditions because the mass of air entering the cylinders is the same.

If the throttle is opened all the way in condition 2, the manifold absolute pressure will increase from 15" Hg to nearly 30" Hg (~100 kPa), about equal to the local barometer, which in condition 2 is sea level. The higher absolute pressure in the intake manifold increases the air's density, and in turn more fuel can be burned resulting in higher output.
Almost anyone who has driven up a high mountain is familiar with the reduction in engine output as altitude increases.

Correct me if I wrong .....the way I see it (WOT) open throttle at 5000' you are injecting less fuel than at 500' above sea level.
Is that a cause of pinging?
 
Looking at the wretched parts list all the G11's have the same ECU worldwide. the G12's have three different ECU's listed. Whether this means they are *Physically* different or simply programmed differently who can tell?

Pete
 
at 5100 feet of altitude, less fuel is burned, resulting in lower engine/combustion chamber temps. Ping is ultimately caused by heat (regardless of how the heat is created) so lower temps mean less tendency for auto-ignition.

I am still stumped as to why the 2v 1200 sport ECU ran better than mine.
 
Spaceclam said:
Took it on the freeway, 65mph in 6th gear (about 4k rpm) and PINNED it, all the way up to 100mph. Nothing. I kept trying, repeating it over and over again. after a few times, i got a clink or two. :eek:hmy: Who's bike is this again!? I will continue to report as the weather changes around here, but so far, 100% SUCCESS!
Click to expand...
Excellent, you're welcome again. Good to have the knowledge now for those with problematic machines.

Also to note, testing here at my place gives ~2400' of elevation down to sea level in a matter of several minutes.

DanPez said:
That was my next question .... would Marelli have build different mapping for different areas?
Click to expand...
It's a proven fact that they do not... hence a large part of the problem, IMO.
 
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