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V7 III - brutal pinging during hot weather

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Frupper, Jul 2, 2019.

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  1. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    Hi folks I have strange issues with my bike. When I riding for longer time there is throttle position around 50% where engine pings. Bike has only 2000 miles and I noiticed that right after break in(when I started to use more throttle). During very hot days engine pings like crazy - unable to ride it. Previously I thought that is because of aftermarket exhaust (Mistral Shorty) but not it is same with OEM.

    facts:
    - sound like small stones in metal sheet pipe
    - runs fine in lower throttle
    - runs fine in full throtle
    - most severe pinging - 5th,6th gear small uphill
    - seems to be independent to RPM just throttle possitions
    - sparplugs changed - no difference, colour dark grey electrode, white insulator.
    - premium hi-octane fuel - improvement, but not elimination
    - cold runs fine
    - checked for vacuum leaks with carburator cleaner - nothing
    - no vacuum in gas tank, but possitive pressure (it is mistery to me how pressure is generated?!)
    - reset of ECU (via diag + fuse out for 1hour) - maybe temporary improvement but not sure
    - only supect thing on all bike is that lower screw on TB is dirty from oil

    Bike is under warranty but it is quite hard to coorninate hot weather with dealer`s schedule to show symptoms clearly.

    So guys any ideas?
     
  2. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    I suspect you are running it at too low of a RPM. If it's a III never less than 3500 in the first 4 gears and over 4000 in 5&6. that means you better be going up that small hill in fifth at 55 MPH or so. you can't lug these engines.
     
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  3. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    I am not actually 6th gear I am using just on highway and downhill but not less than 60. 5th gear from 60. Low RPM only when cruising thru the city with minimal throttle. My previous bike was 4 cylinder so I am used to higher RPM. Anyway in hot weather my bike losepower higher RPM are needed anyway.
     
  4. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    BTW: what is normal temperature of engine during warm day 75F (24C) I have aroun 125C after relaxing ride, but water on cylinders doesn't boil (doesn't make "tsssss" sound) so maybe bad temperature sensor?
     
  5. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    temporary disabled EVAP (clamped vacuum hose and sligtly open gas tank :)- no effect except better start when hot
     
  6. V700Steve

    V700Steve High Miler GT di Razza Pura

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  7. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    I am pretty sure that it will help but I would like to have working stock bike like others around me. There is something broken and I would like to fix it first and have solid baseline for next mods.
     
  8. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Sounds to me like the engine is running a little too lean or with ignition a little too advanced at that throttle setting. You might also want to check that you have the correct valve clearance settings; a slightly too tight exhaust valve can run a bit hot and top the scale if the mixture is marginal.

    I've ridden at temperatures in excess of 100°F with my V7III Racer and not heard any pinging at all. It's been updated with the GTrx ECU Tool and a customized map; the EVAP has been removed, the SAS also, and it has Agostini mufflers fitted.

    In my notes on the bike, I noted that there were a few spots in the throttle range that felt lean to me with the factory engine map. They all disappeared when I loaded the customized engine maps.
     
  9. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    I increased valve clerances to 0.2/0.15 to be on safe side. It just slightly increased noise of warm engine. I know that V7 Euro 4 has suboptimal fuelling. But while I live in less hot climate than Italy I think my case can't be normal. I just need very hot day to show it to my delaer, when they admit problem, they can start to swap things. But it means long time without bike probably. I think it could be one of these things according timing/lean mixure. I think lean mixture is the primary issue, when hot, sounds lean (quiter exhausts and airbox sound)

    1. Shifted tone wheel, chain damage (I hope that is unlikely)
    2. MAP sensor
    3. TPS sensor
    4. Contamination in combustion chamber
    5. Vacuum leak
    6. Temp sensor
    7. Broken ECU

    interesting thing is we swaped bikes with my friend and mine runs better until temperature rises. His bike is 5000miles.

    One extra interesting thing aftermarket exhaust without DB killers presents same behavior - not worse as I would expect.
     
  10. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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  11. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    When my V7iii was standard I could induce pinging on a hot day under quite high load passing road trains etc. Using 91RON fuel, speed starting around 100Kph, 4th or 5th gear under nearly full throttle for maximum acceleration. All cured with Todd's new ECU map.
     
  12. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    Hi, this will be more serious issue, I took a look via endoscope and... hell on earth, pistons (one more than other) are melted badly. I don`t know what happend and how it is possible. I am devastated. I hope warranty claim will go well.
     
  13. PokeyGuzzi

    PokeyGuzzi Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Yikes. I don’t have anything to offer other than sympathy. I’ll be interested to hear how this story plays out.
     
  14. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    There has to be a serious timing issue like cam being off one tooth or injector problem. I suspect they can tell by getting it on a computer.
     
  15. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    Believe or not computer is happy, bike works fine during colder part of the day. Even consumption is fine. No smell of fuel so maybe CAM or chain itself. May be some oiling issue.

    4C52DEC8-6042-4B3E-8DF2-B7CA6AFB1BCC.jpeg
    62424C4B-4AC7-4488-9848-4BE625EE3031.jpeg
     
  16. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    Usually a too lean mixture or completely off timing to fry pistons.
     
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  17. Frupper

    Frupper Just got it firing!

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    Both weird for brand new bike after break in (down) period. But shit happends and warranty is exactly for these situtions. Still big fan of guzzi. This is my first broken engine
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
  18. avlis

    avlis Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I had a similar sound on my V7III before the engine failed. Other than a broken timing chain, I'm not sure what internal damage was done. They just replaced the entire engine. I'm not sure the noise was pinging. It sounded mechanical to me.
     
  19. asoces

    asoces Just got it firing!

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    Why is that? I test rode a III and it seemed ok to me below 3000rpm. I can cruise around on my II all day at 2500rpm and it seems quite happy.
     
  20. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    If no load, (just an easy cruise on the flat) then 2500 may be OK. However, low RPM increases stress on the crank, main bearings, and connecting rod big ends just as high RPM may cause addition piston and cylinder wear. Low RPM with load is not a good situation.
     

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