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V7 III - brutal pinging during hot weather

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by Frupper, Jul 2, 2019.

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  1. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I'm surprised that it's pinging using 95 octane - I assume that's RON. However, the ambient temp is certainly enough to bring it on under load. You can cause anything from no real damage through to a worst case of destroying the entire engine. Pinging MUST be stopped.

    Pinging is a "feature" of the V7iii engines. Mine would ping its bloody heads off nearly any time I tried to accelerate, even slightly. It's a feature of extreme lean running, done by MG to get them past Euro4 emissions. Being in West Oz, our summer temps are much like yours - 32° to 40+° most days. My dealer (the best one in Oz) has the problem all the time with customers' bikes.

    Todd's fueling fix is THE fix! You won't believe how much it'll leap into life when the fueling is set correctly.
     
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  2. DeadEye

    DeadEye Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I don’t know if that’s ping/knock ?

    It sounds like your just getting to the right frequency to set some part vibrating...
    Listening to it again and again it seems to be at a particular RPM sometimes just before you back off,
    IMHO I don’t think it’s knock ?

    Work on anything lately, maybe it loosened up ??
     
  3. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    I just got out the 95 RON and put in 98 RON (big price difference, 1.47 € to 1.68 € per litre). Best I can find here, and not so common anymore. Will see if it improves or not.

    I can see no reason at all for not running without problems with 95 RON, the recommended in the manual. I would rather sell the bike than buy a reflash during warranty. Its a matter of principles. I would be ok if the reflash comes from the dealer, it happens all the time in car industry. Now that I'm typing this, I remembered that it happened something simillar with my car, but when cold (1.5 petrol bmw engine), and a reflash solved the problem. Oh well...

    I really cannot find anything loose. When hot, the sound comes from the middle of the rpm up to the limit, 6000+. In the morning, in the first 25 min or so, its ok.

    Lately I just checked the valves gaps, which were ok. Just a tiny adjustment on the right intake valve.
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Guzzi maps these bikes lean to meet emission standards at the lower RPM range and is over rich in the upper to help cool. This is done to meed emission standards. The map from Todd will improve you machine. If the 98 RON doesn't stop the pinging, then the reflash is the answer. Guzzi will probably not be updating the maps.
     
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  5. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    I understand that, but that is not an issue that should be passed to the end user.

    Just went for a ride with 98 RON. 36 ºC amb. temp. It seems way better, but still there occasionally.
     
  6. DeadEye

    DeadEye Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Hi,
    How long have you had the bike ( I see you joined in May of this year ?) is it new to you ?
    ( wondering if it was fine last year, but now it’s making noises )

    I know when you start riding / driving something new/different your listening to all the different noises, some are odd, but *normal* - regardless of whether you like them or not.

    Try another ride with no strong acceleration , very gradually getting through the RPM range where the vibration noise starts. See if you can find an RPM where it persists.
    Does your model have a tachometers ?

    Unless I’m mistaken i thought you would only get ping/Knock under load, not just cruising or gentle acceleration ??

    Keep us posted.
     
  7. DeadEye

    DeadEye Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I read somewhere that the torque curve is said to peak about 4500, the factory “shift light” I think is set to 4800 ?
    So you may be having Fun* winding it out to 7500 but you would be better off getting back in the peak torque curve depending on what your doing ;)
     
  8. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Cars (and most Jap bikes) have actual, working ECUs, that do something. Whereas your (and my) Gutz has nothing better than an electric carburettor. All the same performance and economy as a carby, with none of the serviceability. However, as I said before, your Gutz will spring to life with the fueling set up correctly.

    I've been toying with the idea of perhaps shedding the ECU et al altogether and going to a pair of Mikuni TM34 or TM36 carbies. A couple of inlet manifolds and a nice Koso dash and voila! Something really nice to play with.
     
  9. DeadEye

    DeadEye Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I think Todd and the boys ( gurls ?) have done a conversion to carbs on one of their builds... maybe they would sell you a Kit ?
    The only issue ( ok one on the many possible issues ) would be where do you get a Speedo drive ?
     
  10. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    I bought the bike in march this year, so 4 months old. It was all fine, normal noises from valves, drivetrain... The "odd" noises started some weeks ago. First time I noticed the noise I was pulling on a slight uphill straight. Weird, I thought... Then it got worse. Not healthy sound, at all.

    My model is a carbon dark, so no tachometer. But Im guessing from 3500-6000 rpm. (I set the warning light flashing at 5500 rpm and on at 6100 rpm, power peak)

    The noise comes when I demand a reasonable ammount of power from the engine.

    Will see how it behaves during next week on my commuting to work. If it gets better with 98 RON, I'll get 95 RON again to replicate the problem at the dealer. Then will see.

    Sure will keep you guys posted!


    Yeah... Cars even have knock sensors to help managing that issue. But 650 € for a ECU flash to repair a problem, that should not even exist in the first place, is quite alot. But I understand your point, really. And would love to feel the difference.
     
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  11. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    don't, Edelweiss tours only let you use 98 over there. even on bikes that don't need it because of problems and they tend to run in high altitudes where its colder. I suspect you need to keep the RPM higher 4000 +. way back somebody listed RPM at different speeds and gears here. try searching.
     
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  12. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    Yeah, but using only 98 RON here is quite limiting... Only a few gas stations still offer.
     
  13. TexMexStrada

    TexMexStrada Tuned and Synch'ed

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    That sounds like wonderful spring time temps in my neck of the woods! We are having a "cold front" moving through so it dropped to 92F, but were at 103F a couple days ago :) Luckily my V7III hasn't complained so far, but I appreciate the suggestion above about octane boost, makes a lot of sense once we get into August (steady 105F+).
     
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  14. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    Actually staying home with lots of water and tequila makes the most sense!
     
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  15. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    Did 450 km since I got 98 RON from BP. Drained all the 95 RON to a cannister and got a full tank . Now I'm on the second one. Did 4.6 l/100 km.
    The air temperatures dropped a bit, from high to low 30's (ºC). The pinging virtually stopped. Sometimes I "think" I ear here or there, but not with certainty, so I assume for now that it wasn't. With 95 RON I could induce it whenever I wanted with a hot engine.

    Now I just have to find a way on how to block wind noise from my audio recording (phone), theres a slight knock sound when accelerating, different from pinging for sure, from around 3000 to 4000 rpm... Will try to show it to you guys.

    Thanks for the 98 RON tip! It sure helped alot!
     
  16. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    Just heard the noise I was refering in this video at 14:18 to 14:22.


    Not pinging this time, sounds like metal pipes touching some metal. Mine does the same in the same exact conditions, gentle pull, around 3000 rpm and up...
     
  17. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    Tighten the heat shields
     
  18. Miguel Gomes

    Miguel Gomes Just got it firing!

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    First thing I did. Not that.
     
  19. DeadEye

    DeadEye Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I think he has the same plastic injector and Starter motor cover as on mine, I don’t think the plastic rattles like the metal might.
     
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  20. Dinsdale Piranha

    Dinsdale Piranha Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    As I said, Koso do some really nice full dashes. TrailTech and Acewell are also worth a look. I have a nice Acewell on my DR650.
     

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