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Valve Adjuster Screws Compatibility

lakson

lakson

Just got it firing!
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
23
Location
Macedonia
Hi All,
I've found out that the thread on one of the valve adjuster screws is pretty damaged from previous adjustments and wanted to buy new one.
Now I see there are two part numbers for this part (873850-OLD and 879707-NEW).

The first one is nowhere to be found (dealer can't order it, couple of online shops say part no longer available), and the second (NEW PN) looks different than the one I have (the first one - for 2010 Sport1200)

So this is the OLD - which I have on both Cylinders (873850)

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/images/product_images/popup_images/873850.jpg


And this is the new, Part Number (879707):

http://www.stein-dinse.biz/images/product_images/info_images/879707.jpg


So my question is, are they compatible? Because at least from the pictures found online they don't look quite the same and I am worried that if I buy the new version I might not be able to fit it (The thread difference, length..and anything else maybe....)

Has anyone replaced just this screw with the new PN screw and fitted successfully without having to replace anything else ?
 
Hard to tell from the pictures but the thread count (pitch) looks different. If that is the case, then they are not interchangeable. You could measure the diameter and thread pitch on your adjuster and ask the dealer to check the new one. If diameter and pitch are the same, then they should be interchangeable. Have you tried repairing the thread on your adjuster with a thread file? Something like this https://www.amazon.com/Nicholson-Thread-Restoring-Square-Metric/dp/B000LEGYPK
 
Well the dealer in my country has no parts on stock. When someone asks something, then they make an order. Waiting for parts from them is minimum 1 month. So I don't have an immediate option to compare measurements from my adjuster and a new one. That's why it would be best to know and get it right from the first time when ordering something.
Regarding repairing I don't think it is an option because the thread is badly damaged, not just a little. There was a play on that valve of nearly 5mm :(
There must be some place that has this older adjuster type, or if someone has done the interchanging and knows that the new one is compatible.
 
Lakson, is your engine an A7 - this is etched on the side of the engine? Is your engine a 4 valve head model? If so there may be other things happening...
 
Oz1200Guzzi said:
Lakson, is your engine an A7 - this is etched on the side of the engine? Is your engine a 4 valve head model? If so there may be other things happening...
Click to expand...

Hi Tony, Yes, it is a 4 valve/head engine. It's a 2010 model and has 60.000 km so far, I am the first owner.
I know that there are more things involved here, like worn tappets and similar. This adjuster screw problem is now with highest priority, and from the condition of other parts I was thinking to go another 20.000 km before replacing the whole system either with new, or with the newer "roller" type. But for now, without a working adjuster, can't even start the engine.
 
lakson said:
Hi Tony, Yes, it is a 4 valve/head engine. It's a 2010 model and has 60.000 km so far, I am the first owner.
I know that there are more things involved here, like worn tappets and similar. This adjuster screw problem is now with highest priority, and from the condition of other parts I was thinking to go another 20.000 km before replacing the whole system either with new, or with the newer "roller" type. But for now, without a working adjuster, can't even start the engine.
Click to expand...


At this point you need to go ahead and get the roller conversion performed. I've seen wear begin at very low mileage (about 2000 miles) If you are having issues now, no way you can get any more mileage out of your flat tappet configuration. If fact you have done well to get 60,000 km. If during the upgrade you see significant wear, you will also need to flush the oil system to remove all the metal.
 
Lazar, John's warning is there but I will iterate - Do no ride your bike any more until the roller conversion is done. It is already doing damage and others have experienced how much it costs to recover a stuffed engine, especially when the big ends start wearing with the DLC in the oil.
 
John, Tony, thanks for the input guys. Since I didn't saw any significant wear on the tappets, and the only problem was the thread on the adjuster screw, that's why I was thinking of replacing first just this screw, and then see how it goes.
But I completely understand your thoughts and warnings, and you are right, best would be to do the roller conversion and then continue with happy riding :)

However, I haven't seen a complete list of all the parts I need to get in order to do the conversion, or anything like a prepared kit, set..or similar, and also from where. If you have info on this, any links or contacts please share. Thanks.
 
If memory serves correctly and your bike is like mine you reuse your existing rocker arms you will still need to sort the screws if you do the conversion. My first thought was just do the conversion but then I remembered that.
First you have to determine which kit you need, A, B, or C. A copy of the TSB is on here somewhere but I can't find it.
I looked on the Sport parts list and I i didn't see the kit but it is on page 102 of the 8V Norge parts list. You get cam box with the cam, roller lifters and some half moon adapters for the rockers in the "A" kit with all of the gaskets needed to do the job.
http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st3/GU099.pdf
 
abbienormal said:
If memory serves correctly and your bike is like mine you reuse your existing rocker arms you will still need to sort the screws if you do the conversion. My first thought was just do the conversion but then I remembered that.
First you have to determine which kit you need, A, B, or C. A copy of the TSB is on here somewhere but I can't find it.
I looked on the Sport parts list and I i didn't see the kit but it is on page 102 of the 8V Norge parts list. You get cam box with the cam, roller lifters and some half moon adapters for the rockers in the "A" kit with all of the gaskets needed to do the job.
http://www.af1racing.com/store/ProdImages/st3/GU099.pdf
Click to expand...

I didn't knew there were different kits (A,B,C). How do you determine which one you need?
I saw this Norge Parts Catalog, but on the page where the Timing System II is shown, all of the parts are listed, and for the conversion I don't believe that every one of those parts needs to be replaced right? Because in that case I assume the conversion would be very very expensive.
 
lakson, The B kit is the easiest to install. You replace the lifters, cam, and cam box. With this kit you re-use your rockers. One the bike I did for a guy, the adjusters were frozen in one of the rockers. They stripped and the rocker was replaced. Pretty easy to do even with the cam box installed. The rocker wasn't expensive (138 USD) and came with new adjusters so adding the necessary rocker assembly may be the way to go in your case. You need to inform a dealer of the engine serial number. From that number it will be determined which kit you need. There is one kit that requires shimming the valve springs which is much more involved.
 
Just to re-add what John said, you need to use the version of the kit based on which version of the motor you have. The dealer should be able to tell you which version of the kit you need if you give them your VIN / Engine serial number.
You can hope that your engine needs the easiest kit to install, but in the end it needs the version it needs and if that is the hardest / most expensive kit that is what it needs.
If you can't get that info from your dealer there may be someone on here that can pull the info for you.
 
lakson said:
I didn't knew there were different kits (A,B,C). How do you determine which one you need?
I saw this Norge Parts Catalog, but on the page where the Timing System II is shown, all of the parts are listed, and for the conversion I don't believe that every one of those parts needs to be replaced right? Because in that case I assume the conversion would be very very expensive.
Click to expand...
I have only done one, mine, but you need all of the parts unless you feel you can reuse the gaskets in which case save them for spares. The "A" kit cost me just shy of $1,100 US but was complete. "A" or "B" are the easy ones. If you look at Canuck1969 posting in the Stelvio thread he has posted the procedure complete with photos and instructions. It really wasn't that bad but I have a lot of tools. My worry about doing it was worse than doing it.
 
I might have it all wrong, but I think the A7 engine (Sport) requires the most expensive kit. Is there a D kit?
 
Thinking back to the replacement rocker I installed on the Stelvio, the original screws had a slot for adjustment. The replacement rocker had screws that use an Allen key for the screw like the oil head model BMWs. That may be what drove the part number change.
 
2012 Norge - 3mm allen wrench so maybe they did make a change. Can't remember what my 2007 took.
 
I wasn't quite able to determine which kit do I need for my 2010 Sport. The dealer here doesn't know anything about this and couldn't help much.

According these links and their descriptions I am led to believe that I need the A kit, since my Sport is 10-12, not 08-10 model (I think):

http://www.tlm.nl/webshop/en/camshaft-kit-a-8v-10-12-s-g-n-1a002060-moto-guzzi
http://www.tlm.nl/webshop/en/camshaft-kit-b-8v-09-10-stelvi-1a002063-moto-guzzi
http://www.tlm.nl/webshop/en/camshaft-kit-c-griso-8v-08-10-1a002082-moto-guzzi

These are my engine No. : A7 011511 , and chassis No. ZGULPR007AM111388. Is there anyone who can pull this info for me, if possible?
 
Lazar, not good news, I'm afraid...

From a guru: "2010? It'll be a 'C' kit I think. Just ask him if the rocker covers have the 'O'-ring seal around the long plug tube or the thick neoprene gasket that goes between the cover and the rocker carrier/cambox casting.

If it has the early type with the o-ring it'll need a 'C' kit. Later type needs the 'D' kit. Unfortunately none of the Sports ever had the shims installed at the factory so either kit is a 'Heads Off' fitment job."

Hope this helps...
 
Hey Tony,

Thanks a lot for your effort. Appreciate it.
I have finally received an official answer stating that I would need the D kit. Although according the document they sent me it says that if I have the o-ring then it will need the D kit, not C. I am uploading the pdf file I got.

Also the price is 1575 Euro for the D kit (I just forgot to ask is it one kit per cylinder, or for both...but from previous experience I am sure it'll be 1 kit = 1 cylinder :) )

One other thing, if anyone wants to know the answer to my original question from the first post in this thread, I also got the answer to that. The valve adjuster screws for the Sport 1200 are not interchangeable between the old (873850) and new (879707) version.
The new version has a different thread. The only solution I was given (If I don't go forward with the D kit), is to replace the whole rocker assembly with included new type of valve adjuster screws. This costs about 200 Euro per rocker.

So that's it. I still haven't decided what to do, but at least now I know my options, and I hope these informations will help to anyone else.
 

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