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valve clearances

R

Roblatt

High Miler
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
603
Location
Nar Nar Goon, Victoria, Australia
Hi all.

I have a 2006 B11 2 valve. I've had it since new.
The last time the valves were done were by the dealer that sold me this bike (embarasingly, this was a long time ago).

I thought I'd check and adjust the clearances while doing some other maintenance. This is not rocket science and I've done it on other push rod motors, but, when I got to TDC at the compression stroke, I find there are no clearance on any valve, in or out and on both pots.

I know you're supposed to pull and push the valves to get a little click before adjusting but mine are all too tight to move anything. I can use a lever to pry the valve away from the rocker but that's it. My guess is it will take several turns of the adjuster to free it all up.

My concerns are :
can the adjustment be so far out with neglect alone?
am I missing something or have I overlooked anything?
if I loosen it all up so there is plenty of free play and start again, I can't stuff anything up, can I?

The bike runs great and doesn't miss a beat.

thanks

Robert
 
Firstly, are you sure you have the cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke? Remember, there are 2 TDCs in the 4 strokes of a 4 stroke engine.

The easy way to do it is:
1. whatever your method, get the rear wheel off the ground
2. remove both spark plugs
3. put the tx into top gear
4. place a drinking straw through 1 plug hole until it rests on the piston crown
5. rotate the rear wheel by hand in its normal direction until that cylinders is at TDC
6. check visually if the inlet valve is depressed
7. if it is, rotate the rear wheel until that cylinder comes on to TDC again.
8. you're now at TDC compression stroke - check and adjust the tappets on that cylinder

Repeat the whole process on the other side - the 2 cylinders won't ever be at TDC at the same time. By visually checking the inlet valve you won't have to worry about whether or not the clearances have closed up completely.

My apologies if I've just tried to teach you to suck eggs :).
 
Dinsdale Piranha,

Don't apologies, I'm hoping I've missed something so you've just reinforced what I've done is correct. I've done everything you've listed, except I used the engine turning nut at the front instead of rotating the rear wheel (rotating it clockwise).

I have also tried jiggling the rockers at all points in the rotation just in case I had TDC wrong, but they are tight right through the whole 4 strokes.

Robert
 
Roblatt said:
Dinsdale Piranha,

Don't apologies, I'm hoping I've missed something so you've just reinforced what I've done is correct. I've done everything you've listed, except I used the engine turning nut at the front instead of rotating the rear wheel (rotating it clockwise).

I have also tried jiggling the rockers at all points in the rotation just in case I had TDC wrong, but they are tight right through the whole 4 strokes.

Robert
Click to expand...


In that case you have some adjusting to do before you burn valves, if you haven't already. Depending on how long you have neglected it is plausible that the few thousands clearance has been used up.
 
yes John,

I do need to adjust the valves, I was curious to see if there was something I was unaware of or I'd missed in the process. Hopefully they're not burned out too much as the bike runs fine.

Out of curiosity, if the valves are bad or on the way out, what would I notice when the engine is running?

thanks

Robert
 
Robert, doing the valves with the rear wheel is the hard way (sorry Dinsdale Pirahna). Put it in neutral, remove the plastic cover on the front of the crank, use a 24 or 27mm socket (can't remember which) on a ratchet and you can then watch and play with TDC till you get it right, with the straw, wooden skewer, pencil, or whatever (whatever should be combustible and do no damage if things go pear shaped). You don't have to be right on TDC - a few degrees either side is close enough as you are on the flat of the cam and not on the lobe that opens valves.

Any questions, just give me a ring, you have my number - though not after 8pm - I NEED my beauty sleep! Work time is good too, and I can ring you back if am indisposed.
 
Tony, it is a 24mm.

Roblatt, you would need to do a compression test to see if there is damage. You may not notice valve damage for awhile in the running of the bike.
 
Tony,

Yours is the way I've been rotating, and yes it is much easier. I probably won't get to it until the weekend but thanks, I will call if I run into strife. As I mentioned, I've done valve adjustments on other push rod motors, I've just never seen one with no gap on any valve.

John, thanks for the quick response. Since it still runs fine now, once it's back together I'll just ride it, and if and when it starts to smoke, lose power etc, I'll have it repaired by some one competent (not me). I do have a basic compression tester from my youth, I'll try to dig it out and see what the results are.

regards

Robert
 
Valve clearances done. 4 and 6 thou, a little on the loose side. The bike runs smooth.
One silly question though, being twin spark, I presume I need to pull a fuse to test the compression. If so, which one, or is there another way?

thanks

Robert
 
Remove the outer plug on each side after disconnecting the fuel tank electrics. It will crank over but not fire, allowing compression to be done. Is this what you mean, Robert?
 
I'm a little confused now. Does each cylinder have 2 spark plugs? I know this is not overly unusual, but it's the 1st I heard of of it on te Gutzs. Are all of the Gutz engines the same in this regard?
 
The last of the 2V engines (1100, 1200, maybe some others too - 1000, Bellagio?) all had dual plug heads. There is an inner plug that is there for up to 60,000 km, and outer plugs that get replaced more often. I presume these are there to ensure complete(r) combustion to ensure fuel is burnt and emissions are complied with. These plugs work all the time. If the inner is disconnected, performance issues are felt under heavy acceleration - don't ask me how I know, and they are a right royal bitch to get the plug cap back on with the tank and airbox in place.

The 1200 8V engine only has a single plug, but also sports a different combustion chamber design.

The 1400 engines have 2 plugs but the inner (I presume) cuts out above certain revs. Again effective combustion, Euro Compliance are probably to blame for them
 
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Do Gutz gize use platinum/iridium plugs. My car has just turned over 200,000Km on the original iridium plugs - no misfires or any other issues. I had planned on putting them in my Gutz at 1st change time.
 
Yep!

On the 2V 1200 Sport: NGK PMR8B - Inner; NGK BPR6ES - Outer.

In the Vee of the motor, the inner plugs can rust and therefore need to be removed and cleaned up occasionally. PITA to get them back in straight though. I cross threaded my inner R/H one some years back and had to remove the head to get the plug in straight. I will timesert when the time comes for a top end refresh, on both sides. The attack angle is hindered by the frame rails on the Sport, Norge and Breva, hence the issues. If you are careful, this should hot happen, but I am impatient, have ham fists, and the dexterity of an elephant!
 
For installing the inner plug I inset the plug into a section of fuel hose and use the hose to get the threads started. You can't apply much torque that way so if the threads are not aligned it won't turn in. It also helps to coat the threads only with a bit of anti seize. Also you will need to grind down the outer surface of a spark plug socket just to get the socket on the spark plug. The factory tool for the spark plug is so flimsy it is just about useless.
 
Done all that John, including the rubber hose. I was in a rush one day and now will pay the price...
 
OK for now John, but a PITA if you need to remove the head to put a plug in - lucky they are long life plugs and should still work for a good bit yet
 
Apologies for the delay, I haven't had a chance to get to the bike until now.
Just an update, I did the compression test and the results were left pot 150 psi, right pot 130 psi.

The bike is an '06 Breva (2 valve) with 110,000kms.

That's a 15% difference which I thought is a lot. But no point fixing something that still works so I'll ride until it worsens. My question is, what psi is too low and would require attention?

appreciating all the help,

Robert
 
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