V100 Fueling misconceptions

[allenpeter]

Just eliminate this headache.
As a note, if I ever build one, I would NOT put the trans mount on mine. It's not needed when the boat anchor hot-box is removed.

Agostini V100 SS Header System

Agostini V100 SS Header System Agostini's "big bore" cat-less headers and Y-pipe for your V100 (standard and S models) - Fit to stock or aftermarket (Ago) mufflers linked below. Hand-made with high quality stainless steel. Though claimed to work on stock fueling, we highly recommend the UpMap...

gtmotocycles.com

They are working on fueling issues ?
The O2 sensor is up by the heads ,noting down by the cat , so why would it cause a issue

 

[scottmastrocinque]

They are working on fueling issues ?
The O2 sensor is up by the heads ,noting down by the cat , so why would it cause a issue

You obviously did not click the link and read fully, hence your confusion.

 

[allenpeter]

Yes sir I did read it and it does not explain why there is a fueling issue that they are working on , there might be a slight difference in back pressure ,but I assume a exhaust company would know how to achieve similar back pressure in their silencers .

 

[Mayakovski]

 

[GTM®]

Yes sir I did read it and it does not explain why there is a fueling issue that they are working on , there might be a slight difference in back pressure ,but I assume a exhaust company would know how to achieve similar back pressure in their silencers .

Allen, please list your resume on fueling. Mine is HERE.
Air/Fuel data is the answer to your comments above. OEMs are restrained by brutal emission requirements and crude fueling. You can have a read on the link below.

GTM Fueling Info

A fact to start: No stock Guzzi ECU/F.I. system is fully adaptive, nor can 99% of the dealers do anything to help as they are mostly factory map/warranty restricted. If you modified your bike, it will NOT adapt. Even completely stock, fuel mapping is set up for emissions, not the health and...

www.guzzitech.com

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Yes sir I did read it and it does not explain why there is a fueling issue that they are working on , there might be a slight difference in back pressure ,but I assume a exhaust company would know how to achieve similar back pressure in their silencers .

No Sir. You may have looked at it but you failed to discerned who was writing that text and more importantly, “Why?”.

The “we” in that listing IS NOT Agostini.

It is GTM. GTM is developing, a fueling solution for the motorcycle.

That’s what is being said.

You miscomprehended.

The motorcycle runs excessively lean in stock trim. Adding this Agostini product will further exacerbate this issue unless a proper fueling solution is crafted. This is the message being communicated there.

Upon looking at the available models on the page listed below, it appears that a production product is not yet available from GTM. Soon I would suspect.

Hopefully you get it now.

Fueling

Custom Guzzi Builds, Parts and Service in Southern California.

gtmotocycles.com

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Wonder what happened to post #3? And you had better not ask any more questions or you'll be sent to your room to stand in the corner, say the mighty egos in this forum. Such a shame.

Post #3 is mine and it is still there. Do you have me on “Ignore”?

I don’t know a thing about any “mighty egos” in this forum but there sure seems to be a lot of bullshit complaining from a very few of the people here who have nothing better to do than to try and stir the pot for no reason whatsoever.

Besides, if I remember correctly, you and your ego made a spectacular entrance when you first arrived.

Allenpeter was mistaken. Correction was politely offered. Nobody was assaulted nor attacked and hence as I said, I have no idea why you made your derogatory comment.

I guess some people will just complain no matter what. More egregious is that they delude themselves into thinking this is Facebook, or Twitter, or some other Social Media site, when in fact, it is a privately funded website, with zero targeted advertising, provided at no cost for decades now, to people just like you.

Have a little class and decorum. It would suit you better.

 

[GTM®]

Thanks Scott. I likely deleted it.
I really work around the clock at deleting non-relevant posts.
It is both funny and frustrating that those with the experience and knowledge, that give it away for free, (and I even pay for this website to) get harassed and called names including “mighty ego.” If you knew me at all, you’d instantly see I really have none.
I learned long ago to keep my mouth shut when those with knowledge speak. Those that did always showed their work. In my case, I even post my life résumé for those to see here, and I’ve recently been called a liar about that of all things.
As it says on the scrolling paragraphs at the top of every page, that not many read, BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL (here) is all that is required. You get what you give.
When you show up and ignorantly post incorrect statements, and simply refuse to even read anything, and then take a swing here, yes you’ll be treated like a (Gen-X or pre) child.

If you don’t like it here, just leave. No need to to yell at everyone on your way out the door. I’ve worked my @ss off and spent a tremendous amount of money for two decades building this site to all Guzzisti for free.

Relevance for me to this thread; I’ve designed and built Guzzi exhaust systems since the early ‘00s, and not only dyno-developed them all to post here, but I’ve lived even longer in fueling corrections, first in carbs and now longer in injection. We do full in house R&D testing, production, and I/we (GTM) own a dyno. You can click on the BUILDS at the top of the page for some of my work.

This too will all be deleted as it has no relevance to the topic here.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

You are preaching to the choir there my brother!

One day I’m accused of being mean, the next I’m handing out free knowledge and driving 1000 miles to rescue a member I never met, from the side of the road.

I’ve given up trying to please everybody anymore. If they don’t like what I wrote, they can use the Ignore feature.

I’m just so sick of the constant personal attacks that seem to be increasing all the time. I’m especially over people “eating at your table” and then actually complaining at the fare offered to them for free.

Some people are just assholes, plain and simple. They lose their minds the second they feel they haven’t gotten what they want, the instant they want it.

Class and decorum. Such rare qualities nowadays.

 

[allenpeter]

Okay guys ,I was asking a question and I get some smart ass answers ,that has not helped me understand the fueling issues , since the O2 sensors are up by the heads would they not increase the fuel as the back pressure of the cat was removed and would not a well know professional exhaust company in Italy next to the factory take this into account , I have only ridden bikes for 50 years and have been horrified by some of the rudeness on this forum from people who I assume are adults .
Well I am signing off this group .

 

[GerryAZ]

Maybe I can help answer your question. The oxygen sensors give information that the ECU uses mainly in closed loop mode (running steady speed/load after engine fully warmed up). Fueling in open loop mode is dependent on programmed data and other sensors so factory fuel maps tend to be really lean with intake and exhaust modifications that increase air flow. Factory fuel maps are generally quite lean even without modifications to meet modern emissions requirements.

Although not directly relevant to this thread, I want to express my sincere thanks to GTM for hosting this site. I also want to thank GTM, Scott, and numerous other mechanics/long term contributors for the opportunity to learn by reading the information stored here. I also want to mention that the search function on this site works much better than other user forums I routinely participate in.

 

[groundhog105]

Okay guys ,I was asking a question and I get some smart ass answers ,that has not helped me understand the fueling issues , since the O2 sensors are up by the heads would they not increase the fuel as the back pressure of the cat was removed and would not a well know professional exhaust company in Italy next to the factory take this into account , I have only ridden bikes for 50 years and have been horrified by some of the rudeness on this forum from people who I assume are adults .
Well I am signing off this group .

I think you’re getting your panties in a bunch over nothing. The replies to your question were clearly telling you that GTM would be working on the fueling issues as there always are issues when going to a free flowing system from the restrictive stock system. Todd is meticulous in his fueling development And it takes time.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Okay guys ,I was asking a question and I get some smart ass answers ,that has not helped me understand the fueling issues , since the O2 sensors are up by the heads would they not increase the fuel as the back pressure of the cat was removed and would not a well know professional exhaust company in Italy next to the factory take this into account , I have only ridden bikes for 50 years and have been horrified by some of the rudeness on this forum from people who I assume are adults .
Well I am signing off this group .

Nobody gave you a smart ass answer. Nobody. Only GTM (he owns the place and is an Moto Guzzi FI expert) and I (just another regular member who lurks here) responded to you.

We both told you the truth and even gave you hyperlinks!

You are not the only rider of 50 years around here and in truth, this has nothing to do with imparting knowledge to you or anybody else, of motorcycle systems, especially fuel injection systems. This was painfully evident by your nonsensical statement of:

…since the O2 sensors are up by the heads would they not increase the fuel as the back pressure of the cat was removed and would not a well know professional exhaust company in Italy next to the factory take this into account…

The simple truth as I stated before is that your reading comprehension was flawed.

You did not understand the antecedent and pronoun and whom was being referenced by the word “we”.

It is wrong of you to blame others for your reading comprehension difficulties.

You were politely offered a complete explanation that it was in fact GTM that was developing fueling and even as to why.

There are numerous posts here on this site which elucidate the fuel injection systems on Moto Guzzi motorcycles. The most import concept from these is that like many others, you erroneously believe that the FI via the O2 sensors, can somehow “adapt” to radical changes in the exhaust system. It cannot. It is not a learning computer. No factory motorcycle fuel injection system can do that.

The range of conditions that a closed loop system can adjust for is extremely narrow.

However, the PowerCommander coupled with the Autotune device, (which is sold in the STORE for various models, but not the V100 yet) can do precisely this in a much more accurate fashion, however, it still requires a base map which has been configured specifically for your particular physical configuration of your motorcycle.

This is what GTM does for its clients when you purchase that setup (I have it on my Stelvio) and why you download and send your map to GTM at least once a year for inspection, analysis, and corrections; a lifetime service GTM provides for FREE, just like the use of this forum!

And finally we come full circle yet again, GTM is currently developing a fueling setup for the V100 but it is not yet in production.

Why you continue to act wounded and affronted is truly beyond my understanding. It’s unbecoming for a man of your vintage.

If you still feel the need to stomp your feet and make a scene as you waltz out the door, I feel for you.

However if you can shut down your afterburners, realize that you made a mistake and others here have been trying to help you understand, then perhaps you can actually learn something about your Moto Guzzi motorcycle from those of us who really do know what we are talking about.

Real knowledge is acquired through time, perseverance, reading, and practical application of solid concepts and good technique, not simply by having a motorcycle rumbling between your legs for 50 years.

For what it’s worth, I’ve honed my mechanic skills as a professional, for my whole life. I just retired and closed my highly regarded professional motorcycle repair shop.

I currently own all 15 of my motorcycles in my signature, (including 6 Moto Guzzi motorcycles) and they all run perfectly every single time. They have had only 1 mechanic - me.

Call me whatever you like but I feel pretty confident when I say, that I know what the hell I am talking about.

I hope you calm down and enjoy yourself here now.

I really want to help you but you are making it very difficult.

If you just relax, take a breath, turn off your ego, and receive help graciously, you will see that it’s actually a really nice place here after all. It’s not “your home”. It’s somebody else’s home (GTM’s) and we are all of us, GUESTS.

You do know how to be a guest in somebody else’s home, yes? Ok. Hit the reset button my friend! Welcome.

Best wishes to you!

 

[scottmastrocinque]

I have been truly honored by many here who have come to me to help them with their motorcycle problems.

The greatest of these was jeremiekenney who with his Dad, drove from SC to my shop in Ohio. Several mechanics had tried and failed to repair his very erratic running motorcycle.

The last I heard, the motorcycle is still running like a top! This makes me so happy.

It’s a good read and learning tool.

Wish Us Luck!

Good morning! Well, I am beyond honored this morning. One of the members here, arrived from Greenville, SC yesterday late afternoon, to my workshop in Northwest Ohio. He drove over 600 miles on his journey, to bring his motorcycle to me. I am truly honored and humbled by this. He has had...

www.guzzitech.com

 

[GTM®]

Thanks for all of the helpful words above.

Allen, assuming that is your name, congratulations for surviving riding a motorcycle for 50 years. I’m now at 51 years, and more than half of that was racing professionally in two disciplines and high speed testing of hundreds of machines both as a journalist and as a R&D Test rider. No ego, just fact.

I asked for your resume, you ignored it. I linked you to Fueling, you ignored it or couldn’t comprehend it. Scott clarified your misconception. No one here owes you anything.

Agostini (though a famous racer in past ownership) is a Guzzi dealer, not an exhaust manufacturer. They have them made (from a local vendor that used to supply to the factory) and they simply put their name on them to sell.

In short, since you refuse to read anything (and likely not even this), I’ll type it yet again:
The stock system is partial closed loop, and uses narrow band sensors that have very little (and quite crude) control of low speed (only) fueling. They are mainly for illuminating the Check Engine Light when the system is out of range. It’s NOT AT ALL an adaptive system using them, and modern fueling is critically lean in stock trim alone. The engineers that can deliver a rideable machine with a (short) warranty deserve a gold medal.

This Forum is generally a really good place with good people. Only the rare few that get combative are upset when they won’t invest any time in what is offered here.

This thread is now locked.