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8V Failure info.

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Re:Got an 8V cam......

OK klaas & Pete but if I read correctly (which is not a done deal with my eyesight getting worse by the day! LOL), any owner can go to the dealer and have the suspected parts (mentioned to the dealer by Guzzi themseves) exchanged... or do you still have to wait for failure to get your bike fixed (providing it's still under warranty)?
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

This is a complex system. Do not jump to conclusions . . .
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Greg Field wrote:
This is a complex system. Do not jump to conclusions . . .
Click to expand...

What? You mean the somewhat odd actions of piggio USA? Don't doubt it for a moment. FWIW I actually think that the importer here is trying their best, even though they see more money in Aprilia than Guzzi.

It would seem that all the problems are being treated on a 'Caseby Case' basis. Can you persuade Dave to let Micha lift the scaffold on one of your 8V's and take a pic of the lifters? I'll then do the same with mine and we can compare as, as far as i know, there have been no failures in the USA which probably means that the problem was *fixed* prior to bikes being sent to the USA which is what i rather suspected was the reason for the delayed sales there.

Pete
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

I finally got some more info. I'm a bit embarrassed I believed an unknown-to-me dealer and posted here before knowing more, but the info still is interesting enough I think.

There's no recall, there's something like a tech note. Saying to replace cams and tappets (lifters) on machines that develop abnormal noise (levels). Nothing about pulling the engine apart, apparently, nor about contacting clients to warn them to keep "an ear out" (but then I haven't managed to get a copy of the letter). Also nothing about more frequent checking of clearances (which in itself doesn't surprise me).
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

pete roper wrote:
as far as i know, there have been no failures in the USA which probably means that the problem was *fixed* prior to bikes being sent to the USA which is what i rather suspected was the reason for the delayed sales there.
Click to expand...

Before assumptions become facts we can check that by frame number I think, mine is ZGULSE0088M111594, bought new in november 2008 in The Netherlands.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

RJVB wrote:
There's no recall, there's something like a tech note. Saying to replace cams and tappets (lifters) on machines that develop abnormal noise (levels).
Click to expand...

There is no such thing as a "tech note" about this problem known by my dealer nor the Dutch importer, also demo Stelvio's are still in use here.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

klaas123 wrote:
pete roper wrote:
as far as i know, there have been no failures in the USA which probably means that the problem was *fixed* prior to bikes being sent to the USA which is what i rather suspected was the reason for the delayed sales there.
Click to expand...

Before assumptions become facts we can check that by frame number I think, mine is ZGULSE0088M111594, bought new in november 2008 in The Netherlands.
Click to expand...

Looking at my frame number in the registry (thanks Todd) my 8V seems to be built early 2008 so Pete's observation about US 8V's could be right.
How many 8V's (by estimation) have been sold in the US?
If true, why no recall or modifications on un sold bikes??

The registry: https://www.guzzitech.com/MGGriso/Registry.html
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

There is a problem with the hypothesis that Guzzi would have sorted out and corrected the issue in the US bikes.

If so, owners in other markets should have (and I think, would have) received a letter telling them to keep an ear out, or at least dealers would have been instructed to instruct customers. After all, early detection of failure would presumably limit damage and maybe prevent the need for pulling the engine apart — which *must* be cheaper for the marque!
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

RJVB wrote:
There is a problem with the hypothesis that Guzzi would have sorted out and corrected the issue in the US bikes.

If so, owners in other markets should have (and I think, would have) received a letter telling them to keep an ear out, or at least dealers would have been instructed to instruct customers. After all, early detection of failure would presumably limit damage and maybe prevent the need for pulling the engine apart — which *must* be cheaper for the marque!
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you on this one Rene, we need more facts before this assumpion becomes "a internet fact" as I stated before.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

I think that you are assuming Guzzi are going to do more than they probably will.

A transient batch problem in a few parts (which is what it seems to be to me) is unlikely to give rise to any "notification" at all, just a willingness to repair it under warranty and over time the problem will sort itself out.

Witness the early Breva CARC bearings - they just fixed them when they found a failure, and it's now ancient history.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Maybe you're right, but I'd hope not in a certain way. Letting engines fail where that could have been prevented is going to cost them money, and customers or customer goodwill.

Besides, there was a recall on the CARC, and there also was a recall (in the end) on the topcase plate issue and the Norge's shorting low-beam cable issue.

There are clearly people here who can get their dealers to ask questions to importers and in the end, Guzzi themselves. Why not ask the question, explicitly? "Should we [a dealership] warn our customers to keep an ear out for abnormal noise so that the issue can be addressed as early as possible?"

This whole letter is a weird business. What's an abnormal noise level in an engine that most mechanics hardly know? And then, if it's abnormal, just replace the parts without at least a description of what kind of failure/wear to look for? That's a bit like proscribing antibiotics for a cough...
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Pete:

How far torn down are you after? Tappets on the bench?

Extremely few 8vs have been sold in the US. If I had to guess, I'd say less than a dozen, perhaps half that. Most are languishing unsold at dealerships. The dealership I work at sells, usually, between 20 and 33 percent of the Guzzis sold in the US. We have not sold a single 8-valver.

Pete: The hammered tappet. Was it uniformly hollowed out, or was a groove worn in it, or was there a "snow-angel" pattern worn in it?
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Got my recall letter letter last night as I got in from work...Oh the irony, :laugh:


Say Pete...

Since this is my second set of cams...Do you reckons it's worth pressing for a replacement oil pump? The engine wasn't flushed last time either! :eek:hmy:

Cheers,

Steve
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

I would - for no other reason than you can and you probably deserve one.

Would there be any damage? Buggered if I know, but I do remember blowing a hole in a piston on my Yammy RD and all the metal from the hole went into places in the engine that I didn't think were possible to get to. All I did was clean it out, chuck a new piston in and rode it for several more years, no probs.

The amount of metal that might have come from your tappets would be tiny in comparison, but of course it may be a bit harder material.

Just food for thought.
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Steve, Given your problems and two sets of stuffed cams I'd press for at the very least an oil pump inspection.

Greg. The tappet that I tested, which is the only failed one I've seen 'In Hand' was what you would describe as 'Snow angeled' It was still turning, albeit wrongly but the issue was that it was worn to buggery. I've seen photos of other failures though that have gone way beyond this, to the piint that the, (Very similar.) tappets on the Hydro motors went to.

As for the sales??? While I can understand people being put off by news of failures I can't grasp the dissattisfaction you yourself have expressed with the 8V. I think it is a stunning motor compared to anything Guzzi has done with the pushrod donk. It doesn't have that 'Twist and loft' action of my Scura in the lower gears but with a bit of provocation and the right change points it'll pull the front in 3rd. 6th is basically an overdrive though. At least it will be until the mapping is sorted so it doesn't drown in fuel at WFO.

Pete
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Pete, Mike,

Thanks for the replies :)

I've fired of a mail to the store, asking Rob if he thought the pump should be inspected...So I'll have to wait and see. If MG are hesitant about the additional inspection, then I'll start to worry. But anyway I'll way to hear what Rob has to say. Thanks again for the heads up over the pump...Not something I'd have thought of, to be honest.

Steve
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Steve, while not as easy as on a Tonti getting to the oil pump isn't a huge job. If Guzzi won't come at it I'd just pay them to do it anyway. If it turns out that the pump is damaged then they'll have to pay. If it isn't you have the peace of mind of knowing it is OK. It shouldn't take more than a couple of hours on top of the warranty time. Take off belt cover and alternator. Remove crank pulley. Remove front of timing chest. Remove oil pump gear. Remove oil pump. Inspect. Reassemble. Unlike the earlier bikes with a cam chain you shouldn't have to remove the crank or dummy shaft gears, hust the oil pump one so there is no farting about and re-timing required.

Pete
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Pete,

I got a note from Rob yesterday that he's going to strip both the pumps, since I've had both sets of cams and followers fail. Parts for replacement are apparently in transit....I can only hope that the pumps are ok, if they are, by the time I get it back it will have been a full month of not being able to use it :eek:hmy:

Cheers,

S
 
Re:Got an 8V cam......

Both pumps?

Anyway, from what I hear of the UK weather, you wouldn't have been able to ride her much anyway (or you might have done like me, lose the front, crash her, and wait a month or so for repairs that wouldn't have been under warranty :S)
 
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