• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

8V Failure info.

Status
Not open for further replies.
The fact it is happening on Stelvios and seemingly only on the LH side, (One assumes they at least CHECK the RH side??) would seem to indicate something Stelvio specific and something on the delivery to the LH head. That would be pointing squarely to the delivery pipe, its fittings or its installation wouldn't it?

If you look at the banjo's and bolts used and the diameter of the hose you can see it is unlikely that the orifices are likely to become blocked unless thare are LARGE lumps of something floating about in the line. Only thing I can think of that might fit the bill would be paint off the inside of something, (The oil cooler? Surely that wouldn't be dipped in this day and age??? Anyway I don't think it is painted is it??) or rubber from the inside of the hose flaking off? Alternatively the cross-pipe which has to duck down under the alternator, (I'd guess??) might get compressed and kinked?

Just thinking out loud. I haven't seen the problem.

Pete
 
Well the NTX which is in Haywards failed on the Right hand side, so that puts the oil supply theory out. The camshafts were not shimmed if that makes any difference. Trying to get the build date.
 
The blokes at Haywards are pretty cluey. I'm sure they'll work it out. If the camshafts were unshimmed it was either an early model with the recalleither done or not. If it had been done it might of been done with the shimmable shafts rather than the non shimmable ones and a shim might not of been installed. Or alternatively it might just be that Luigi forgot to shim the shafts on aassembley!

Pete
 
I’ve had the 09 Stelvio for over 10000 km and always been leery when opening the covers to adjusting the valves thinking I may find burrs of metal splattered all over ……
Anyway the last oil change I was looking at the tappets at (TDC) and could rotate them through its film. (Good sign!!!)
https://www.guzzitech.com/forum/196/7024.html#p52730

It’s interesting to see the subject of oil quality popping up on different thread when cam / tappets failures occur.
I’ve personally used the recommended Agip Racing 4T (10w-60) from the beginning.

Just a thought…….
IMHO choosing the correct oil would vary where you live and how you ride …..it all boils down to it's viscosity. You need the least change in viscosity from high to low temperatures.(The Agip figure seems stable compared to Mobil, Valvoline, Amsoil)

I ride at temps from 4/5ºc to 30/35ºc …… when the engine is stone cold you need the oil to flow especially on start-ups. Looking at where the tappets/cams are located, the box assembly on the 4V and how the oil is distributed from the top of the cylinder head you definitely need oil volume not necessary pressure. The oil pressure warning light goes "on" below the 2.9 psi to 7.3 psi range. Below that point I assume the engine is shot. :(
(If your oil line is restricted after the pressure sensor switch you will still get pressure but not volume) Same goes for the oil viscosity when cold….. you’ll get pressure but not necessary the volume required.

Question
On the lubrication part explosion going on the crank case ….. what are the RH and LH nozzles for?
Oil flow restriction of some sort to keep the oil on the top end?
 
Sorry Dan but it isn't entirely dependent on where you live and viscosity per-se is only one minor part of the equation.

Particularly with the 8v motor the ability to withstand heat, lots of it, is IMHO the major concern. Regardless of where you live and the ambient temperature the heat in the galleries around the exhaust valve seats is going to be extreme, even if you are passing the oil through them very quickly they are going to warm it up a LOT. The oil *has* to be able to withstand that without breaking down.

Which 'Nozzles" are you reffering to?

Pete
 
If the cam lubrication oil is fed from the low pressure pump, then the pressure sensor is not involved at all.

But also it wouldn't be the first time that the official recall list was inaccurate. They swore blind that a Norge CARC could not have one of the dud bearings in it, but mine did.
 
OK, the one in Haywards is an A8 motor, 2010 spec, so should not have required a recall.
Also according to Haywards, there is a third type of cam follower now.
 
pete roper said:
ain't that the truth!

Look at this weirdness just posted up on the service site? I mean??? what logic is there to any of this? None! But do we get an explanation? No!!!

http://www.servicemotoguzzi.com/public/ ... 4-2011.pdf

Pete
Click to expand...

That deserves a thread of its own.
It really strikes me that there are no references to what parts are incompatible and what the procedure might be to render the bikes compatible. It may be just some rubber fuel pipes or a fuel pump or a different plastic fuel tank.
I do not suppose there is big difference in the rest of the power plant - or could the seat cover be penetrated if some fuel is spilled on it? :lol:
 
pete roper said:
Sorry Dan but it isn't entirely dependent on where you live and viscosity per-se is only one minor part of the equation.
Particularly with the 8v motor the ability to withstand heat, lots of it, is IMHO the major concern. Regardless of where you live and the ambient temperature the heat in the galleries around the exhaust valve seats is going to be extreme, even if you are passing the oil through them very quickly they are going to warm it up a LOT. The oil *has* to be able to withstand that without breaking down.

Which 'Nozzles" are you reffering to?
Pete
Click to expand...

Hey Pete,
I agree ......this is a minor factor I was merely thinking it may be significant one that when the engine cools down at an ambient lower temperature, as an example leaving it outside overnight at 4/5 ºc where I live, the oil’s viscosity will change. (Starting the bike up at this point ….. you would need a good oil flow to the cam box).
But your definitely right the oil *has* to be able to withstand extreme temperature without breaking down also.

The nozzles I was refering to were item 15) LH pn#874240 and item 17) RH pn#874239 on this drawing:

What is their purpose in the lubrication diagram?
 

Attachments

  • emaps.png
    emaps.png
    3.1 KB · Views: 606
Hi Dan,

Those are cooling jets peeing engine oil at the underside of the piston to aid cooling.

Phang

coolingjets.jpg
 
Thanks Phang,
The piston's stroke creates a vacumm to suck oil through these nozzles or is it presurized from a passage in the case?
 
My pleasure :mrgreen:

AFAIK, they are pressurized. Feed by the lubrication oil pump via the oil gallery in the timing chest.

Phang
 
Brian UK said:
OK, the one in Haywards is an A8 motor, 2010 spec, so should not have required a recall.
Also according to Haywards, there is a third type of cam follower now.
Click to expand...

New number as of March 2011. Dunno whether that means anything but the new number is listed as in stock in Sydney so I'll order a set and see if there is any noticeable difference.

Pete
 
Brian UK said:
Well the NTX which is in Haywards failed on the Right hand side, so that puts the oil supply theory out. The camshafts were not shimmed if that makes any difference. Trying to get the build date.
Click to expand...
Brian UK said:
OK, the one in Haywards is an A8 motor, 2010 spec, so should not have required a recall.
Also according to Haywards, there is a third type of cam follower now.
Click to expand...
Brian UK said:
Just found out that this NTX in Haywards has been on Agip 10W60 for the whole of its life, so the oil is not an issue.
Click to expand...

:blink: wtf...
Could it be some kind of operators error? Can't think of one to affect only the tappets...

Is this a self "exploding" fatigue fault?
By "exploding" I mean that when the tappets just start to fail then they go to completely failed status in very little time/revolutions.
So everything is OK until they just start to scratch and bang! they go completely failed.
 
None of us know. As of this point it is still all supposition. The blokes at Haywards are good.They aren't the sort to cut corners and know their trade. I can offer nothin really as I have yet to see a 'Secondary' failure apart fron onone engine that I knew had been serviced by lazy, ignorant, retards.

FWIW I've ordered another four of the *New* tappets. I'll report on VISIBLE differences when they arrive.

Pete
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top