Ridemalibu Motorcycle Rentals & Tours – Los Angeles CA
  1. Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. In SoCal? See the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have are already answered on the Forum with FACTS, NOT OPINIONS. PLEASE DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back if you are posting elsewhere on the web. Note there's decades of Guzzi hands-on experienced help on this site, all whom give endless amounts of their time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL! Also be sure to click on the STORE link also above for our 600+ product inventory, including many of our 100% Made-in-house-USA GTM products and engine kits. We appreciate the consideration, understanding and your business... past and future. And if you haven't seen our MotoCycle (not) art, click on the BUILDS tab above to see our work at our sister business; GT MotoCycles® -- WE ARE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED.
  2. There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to a PRODUCT or other competing website(s), this includes personal pages, social media or other Forums. We work very hard to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. Sorry to have to do this, but we don't have the time to chase these. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see our online STORE link above; GTM product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.

California 1400 hanging throttle

Discussion in 'Cal 1400 8V' started by guzziken, Jul 22, 2015.

  1. Guzzi_Lou

    Guzzi_Lou Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    @MotorGoose ... fantastic first post! It makes sense and I hope someone else can verify. Mine's out of warranty so I'll live with it.
     
  2. Kjon

    Kjon Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Devon, UK
    Fascinating post MotorGoose. I came to the conclusion this problem must be something mechanical. Having replaced or substituted virtually every electrical component to no avail & invested in Todd's fueling package the problem still persists. Before pulling the heads I'll do a leakdown test. I have a tester but haven't got round to modifying a spark plug enable fitment.

    The photo shows an area of lighter colour between the exhaust valves, does this indicate where the valve wasn't sealing properly?

    Thank you very much for the information.



    Jon
     
  3. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    11,867
    Likes Received:
    4,035
    Location:
    Malibu
    As already stated, great first post, and thanks for taking the time to document it here. This is root of this website for data like this to help/direct informed owners. Yes, I also too often hear "never heard of this" from those that have the power to fix things and keep a customer happy. I'll be doing a compression test on all I see with a high idle problem from here on out.
     
    Loosy gussi likes this.
  4. Guzzi_Lou

    Guzzi_Lou Cruisin' Guzzisti

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    34
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Makes me wonder if in due time the air leak at the valve seat will eventually self seal with carbon build-up.
     
  5. MotorGoose

    MotorGoose Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Denver
    Thanks guys. The dealer did all the work, not me. But I did the reporting. Just a heads up (no pun intended); we did a compression test and leak down on mine and everything was within parameters. It did NOT indicate a problem. One of the predominate problems with this issue that you see in the posts is that it happens at higher heat levels. With a very slight misalignment, the valves seat well enough for the engine to run cold or maybe even warm because it is running a richer mixture during these phases. The hanging shows up after the engine is thoroughly warmed up or hot. My belief (just my opinion) is the heat is a real important part of this equation. Your cylinders are aluminum. Your valve train is almost all steel. They do not heat up, expand, or dissipate heat at the same rate. That means that each system grows at a different rate. That's the reason you need valve lash in the first place. If I have a valve that is marginal in its fit/seal and then the motor starts to heat, the lash is reduced and more of the cam lift is transferred to the valve itself. All it takes is a tiny change and now the valve starts to allow a tiny amount of the charge to revert. I'm pretty sure this reversion is what the sensors are picking up and sending all the confusing info to the computer. The more you make it work; high temps, heavy traffic, pulling grades, heavy loads or throttle application, the sooner it shows up. When you stop and turn it off to reset or get it in the shop to measure, the temp differential between the steel and the aluminum has begun to equalize.
    In the photo (sorry, it's the only one I got) look at the 7:00 to 8:00 position on the left hand exhaust valve as it is in the picture. You may be able to see where the shiny portion of the seat face (where the valve has been making contact) reduces to a knife edge.
    If somebody else runs into this, I would be curious to hear if it is on the left cylinder as well.
     
    GTM® and Loosy gussi like this.
  6. Loosy gussi

    Loosy gussi Tuned and Synch'ed

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    So.Ca.
    Can I assume that pulling the head & lapping the valves would fix? My bike has the exact same symptoms, go up in the mountains get the engine very warm , the idle wants to hang @ 3000 rpm.With the older bikes they opened the valve lash (world specs) I'm curious to see where this goes.
     
  7. MotorGoose

    MotorGoose Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Denver
    Loosy gussi, opening the valve lash might help cover up the problem for a while but you start to introduce some pounding in the valve train and you will start changing the valve timing events which will take you down a whole other slippery slope. Then what are you going to do with the right hand cylinder?
    Lapping or grinding the valves might help if yours has the same problem. But remember, they replaced the entire head on mine. If your head has a different problem, a valve job might not fix it. A non concentric valve guide MIGHT NOT get corrected this way whereas a seat that was pressed in slightly off might grind true, but what if your head has a tiny crack or a mis-cast or mis-drilled guide alignment, or a stem that is just a few thousandths too long? While my money would still be on the valve/seat interface, all I can tell you for sure is that EVERYTHING between the head gasket and the rocker arms was replace on mine and the problem vanished. With that said, if yours is out of warranty, why not try lapping? If you already have a stick and compound it will be practically free. Just a couple of gaskets. Being the cautious type, I personally would still take the head to a machinist and tell him your suspicions and have some very precise measuring done in all planes. It will cost a little but if lapping doesn't fix it you'll end up back there anyway. And you've still saved all the R&R labor. Lastly, I suppose you could instead replace the entire head but, out of warranty, I'd hate to pay what a head assembly would cost. I'm pretty sure mine was north of $1,100.00 just for the head, guides, valves, keepers and springs. The whole job was well over $2,000.00 of warranty billing.
     
    Loosy gussi and GTM® like this.
  8. Loosy gussi

    Loosy gussi Tuned and Synch'ed

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    So.Ca.
    Thanks for the quick reply. I am out of warranty and I understand what you mean, if the head is already removed, might as well have it checked out. For now I will wait until I have some other pressing issue. Because the bike runs so well currently. Don't they magniflux to check for unseen cracks?
     
  9. MotorGoose

    MotorGoose Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Denver
    By "they" you mean whom?
    This was under warranty and Moto Guzzi was calling the shots. So, no they don't do that when it is cheaper (for them) to just send another head. In your case however, I think that is a great idea. So now you know you are dealing with a good part structurally and then go on to dimensional issues. Since they would have to tear down the head to do particle inspection, that's your time to do a valve job and measure everything prior to reassembly. My "guess" is the left cylinder only because that's what it was on mine. But if you don't have anything to indicate that it is the culprit, it becomes a 50/50 chance that you may have to work both heads. I suppose you could do them one at a time.
    You mentioned the way yours runs. Mine ran great and felt smooth. Fuel mileage was good. Then at a stoplight it would sometimes hang @ 3,000 rpm or come down to idle VERY slowly. The biggest problem for me was the total lack of engine braking when it needed to decelerate below 3,000. It was very annoying in traffic or formations but in the mountains, leaned over in and out of curves or hairpins, it was really scary to feel the computer decide that not only were you not going to have any more engine braking but to then have it try to add enough fuel to hold that particular RPM.
     
  10. Loosy gussi

    Loosy gussi Tuned and Synch'ed

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    88
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    So.Ca.
    By "they" I meant "the machinist that can do the headwork"... your description is apsolutly correct, I've tried to describe it before, going down a mountain rd., in a turn, the RPM drops below 3000 and the engine looses all braking then kicks in some fuel (power) kind of off & on type surge, upsetting for sure. I'd like to see other 1400 owners feedback & will follow this tread.
     
  11. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2009
    Messages:
    11,867
    Likes Received:
    4,035
    Location:
    Malibu
  12. MotorGoose

    MotorGoose Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Denver
    I wonder just how many folks fell in love with this machine and then found this problem, gave up and sold? In my research i found four or five problem reports just on this website. Moto Guzzi doesn't appear to have a very good communication network between dealers or between dealers and customers or between dealers and the factory. That's my opinion and it's a shame because a tight knit group goes a long way in establishing customer loyalty as well as satisfaction. The dealer doesn't know what another dealer has run across. The factory won't own and solve the problem. Even if it isn't under warranty, you can take an HD problem to any of the seven dealers in your town and they can all check each others stock and get answers from the factory. I feel MG has overlooked a serious sales tool. More feedback on an excellent site like this is an alternative for an owner; not for a "customer".
    Anybody else currently battling this issue?
     
  13. MotorGoose

    MotorGoose Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Denver
    2015 Tour
    VIN: ZGULVC00XFM200169
     
  14. Mrmerlin

    Mrmerlin Tuned and Synch'ed

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2017
    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    31
    Location:
    Philly PA
    my bike has the hanging throttle most noticeable after refilling with fuel, this gives the engine time to heatsoak when the engine is started the RPMs will stick at 2600 to 3000 for a about 20 seconds then start coming down slowly otherwise riding the bike gets the cylinder cooled off to restore non hanging operation
     
  15. MotorGoose

    MotorGoose Just got it firing!

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2017
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    12
    Location:
    Denver
    I'm only going by what I see on mine but it doesn't sound like the same problem. Mine would only latch onto the 3,000 on the way down from higher RPM. It never climbed up there from a lower number.
    What happens if you don't fuel? Just get it good and hot, shut it off for a minute then restart? Do you still get the over-rev? Sounds more like you might have something as simple as an intake vacuum leak.
     
  16. Moto Punch

    Moto Punch Just got it firing! GT Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    I've started getting more and more bothered by this on my 2016 Eldo --- approaching 6K miles and I'm seeing seemingly related issues almost daily as the Summer temps creep into Arizona. I will be bringing her in for service soon and wanted to understand the best way for a dealer to pin-point the problem. My nearest dealer is HUGE (Ride Now) so I'm afraid of getting the brush-off.

    Here are my symptoms:
    1. Throttle sticks at about 3K rpm when engine warm and coasting (such as down mountain grade) in gear. A throttle blip will remedy it.
    2. Throttle hangs at about same RPM when engine warm and shifting (up or down) or engaging clutch.
    3. Idle jumpy when re-starting after sitting warm
    4. Idles high (about 2K) when warm and stopping to traffic light. She will settle down to 1200 rpm after 10 seconds or so.

    Any advice is welcome. She's a great bike otherwise.
     
  17. Trout

    Trout GT Reference

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    388
    Location:
    Gainesville
    The Ride Now in my part of the world is......well lets just say m-m-m-m- OK no bashing here.
     
  18. PaulDavies

    PaulDavies Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2016
    Messages:
    293
    Likes Received:
    169
    Location:
    Comox, BC, Canada
    That's worrying. I had hoped it was only earlier models 2014 etc that were affected, based on what i had read here, but it seems that anyones cali could fall victim to this. Fortunately up here it never gets that hot, but on a road trip who knows?
     
  19. roadventure

    roadventure GT Reference GT Famiglia

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2014
    Messages:
    1,033
    Likes Received:
    249
    Location:
    Millville, Delaware
    Check the clutch switch. It is well documented to cause the symptoms you note if defective.
     
  20. Moto Punch

    Moto Punch Just got it firing! GT Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Chandler, AZ
    Thanks Dave. I rode to work today with my cruise control on. Pulled the clutch in and cruise cancelled. I think it's OK.
     

Share This Page