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Carked CARC

Erm, from what I remember, yes it would seem a better idea to drain and then refill (using the same oil if you're sure it's new, I guess).

Not sure what hyper-pressure would do to the bearing(s), but I'd NOT want hot surplus oil being vented so close to my rear tyre.
 
If you fully drain the gearbox and add the specified 500ml/cc of oil then the level is still below the filler. The reason I am a bit wobbly about this is because even though the gearbox is vented over-filling has the potential to *encourage* a leak down the clutch pushrod. At the end of the day a few ml less won't do any harm.

With the CARC 380 is specified but really it should fill to about the bottom of the filler 'ole. Once again an exact amount is irrelevant BUT there has to be enough in there for the crownwheel to act as a centrifugal pump simply picking the oil up and flinging it about to cool the bearings and most specifically to lubricate the teeth of the gears.

If you had to add nearly a 1/4 of a litre of oil then either it was woefully inadequately filled or it is leaking out somewhere, most likely up the swingarm via the pinion seal.

Note all this, with pics if possible, for future refference. You don't think that there could be an element of vindictiveness in this do you?? Given your experience I have to ask????

Facking barmy!!!!

Pete
 
The quoted oil volumes for the gearbox and CARC are for completely dry components, such as when brand new or just after a rebuild. At oil-change time that never happens because there is still some oil clinging to the internal surfaces, and there are often crevices which also retain some oil.

While you can't go far wrong by adding the specified volume at oil-change time, I like to have also a means of checking visually that the oil level isn't dropping. On our bikes the swinging arm is a dry component, but oil leaking from the oilseals around the gearbox output shaft and the CARC input shaft can pass into the swinging arm without any evidence showing.

For the gearbox, I like to check occasionally that with the bike on the centrestand that the oil level is about 10mm below the bottom of the filler opening. For the CARC I spin the rear wheel a few times and then remove the filler plug and like to see the oil at the bottom of the hole, which would technically be slightly over-filled.

For the engine, I check the oil evel after the bike has stood overnight on the centrestand and then like to see the level near the full mark. That would translate to a slightly lower level when the engine is running or has just stopped. Not quite the Guzzi method, but it suits me.
 
Well I'm sure there is no leak. The level was OK when I took it in. I checked it after only about 20 miles, and a day after collecting it, so not much time to drop in level. And since I topped it up, have done about 150 miles, and today it is still full to the level plug.
Vindictiveness? No I don't think so. I know they didn't want to do the job, but they also know I am in touch with the After Sales manager Piaggio UK, and I doubt they would want to upset him. Besides which the guy who actually did the job was a hired hand, very experienced mechanic, but doesn't know me. No simple balls up, I think.
I did get an apology over the phone yesterday too. He also said he wants me to take it back after 500 miles so that he can change the oil again. Can't really see the point of that though, as the ball races shouldn't affect the oil and the rest has already had a couple of changes now.
 
My Norge, ZGULPU0047M112994, 5300miles, has had the wheel bearing in the carc unit become loose. about 0.015" at the rim when "rocking" the wheel. Can just feel it "chucking". Have been checking from new and has been tight up to now. Going to talk to dealer today. Is replacing both bearings required?
thanks,
Peter
 
Well, dealer has none of the parts in stock and will have to "special order" them. Does Guzzi close up for August like Ducati? Does anyone know the replacement number from BMW, FAG or Timken etc?
 
I'm fairly sure one of the US dealers has a shelf full of these bearings, but in any case, the parts list gives the bearing dimentions, and any bearing stockist should be able to find one from this information.
 
Based on my casual reading on this forum, seems there have been more Norge and Breva Carc failures reported than Griso Carc failures. I may be way off base here. My 07 Norge (now someone else's) Carc failed at 5500 miles. Now I am getting an 07 Griso 1100 and I am still a little gun shy about the Carc.

Todd Haven is there any truth to my observation?
 
Yes, there have been failures outside of the models that were known to have the duff bearing. Having said that all the ones I've seen bar one have been pinion seal failures. since replacing the pinion seal requuires disassembley of the CARC I always inspect the big bearing closely, (Both by *feel* and with a magnifying glass looing at the outer race track.) and all of the ones I've done, which isn't a huge sample, have been fine.

I know that when the big bearings started failing Greg bought in a load of 'em at MI and they're all still sitting on the shelf!!!!

It is my honest opinion that there is nothing to be 'Gun-shy' about inside a CARC. The crownwheel and pinion look like something out of a 1960's muscle-car! If there is an Achilles heel it is probably that big bearing but I've not had any reaon to be worried yet.

As I've previously said there should be NO discernable play at the wheel rim and if the seal does go it is almost certain that the reason it has gone is because the crownwheel bearing has gone and the *Axle* which is the crownwheel shaft that the wheel bolts to is flopping about in service. Deal with it EARLY if it does occur and you won't get any further damage unless you are very unlucky!

Pete
 
Pete, thanks for putting it all in perspective. I am going forward with confidence with the purchase of my Griso 1100. Once again, your vast experience and willingness to share your knowledge is very much appreciated by me, and I'm sure, the rest of the Guzzi community. We should all be sending you money :)

Rod
 
rocketman wrote:
Pete, thanks for putting it all in perspective. I am going forward with confidence with the purchase of my Griso 1100. Once again, your vast experience and willingness to share your knowledge is very much appreciated by me, and I'm sure, the rest of the Guzzi community. We should all be sending you money :)
Click to expand...

I second that! :)
 
Just got the Norge back from my dealer (Spitzies of Albany, N.Y.) and CARC is now good. They replaced inner and outer bearings, both seals and the boot under warranty, no charge, no questions. I was a bit concerned because of the August / Italy / parts thing, and the comment from the service advisor suggesting I not believe everything I read on the internet..I get tired of hearing this.. but to their credit, everything seems good and it was repaired in time for me to be able to go to Indy as planned. I did have a back-up plan, to ride the '73 GT and although it's a great touring machine, I'd rather not put mile after mile of 75 plus mph on her. Thanks to all on this forum that have contributed to our understanding of Guzzi's and how to best deal with them.

Peter
 
Well, I think Guzzi/Piaggio Italy really *is* closed for August, even for parts, but a fore-seeing importer would, well, foresee parts demands during that period ;)

Having to live with most all dealers/workshops closed during the better part of August really is a hassle. Avoid France for holidays during that period! Our own Wonder B has his Stelvio stranded at 700km, apparently with the exhaust valves' rods bent or something yummy like that, Vizir's Norge is "summernating" at a closed dealership waiting to get a new oilpump, my gf's scooter is in dire need of an expert tuning of its E3 injection system, and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg!
 
Yes indeed August in Italy is a problem, and you did hear it on the internet - your local Guzzi dealer doesn't have to import the bikes and so probably has no idea of the trouble it causes.

I have a $45,000AUD machine sitting in our factory wating for parts that I can't get because the Italian manufacturer sent it fitted with the wrong ones when it was shipped by air from Milan on the 27th July. They then went on holidays on the 30th July and are probably sitting on a beach somewhere while I try to think up feeble excuses to tell my customer as to why he can't have his new machine that he paid a deposit for in June (I'm currently using printer's excuse # 84a - "The Dog ate the electrical cable"). Understandably he is right royally PO at me and is threatening non payment. Oh well - cos
 
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