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Intermittent Firing on Single Cylinder

Goodvibes

Goodvibes

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
287
Location
Stuart
Yesterday did my normal evening 50-mile run to clear the mind after work and parked for 10 minutes. Restarted but it was firing on a single cylinder with the service message/icon lit up. Checked for obvious plug disconnect and couldn’t find one. Rode away at half-speed so to speak for about 8 miles and the engine suddenly picked up on both cylinders. Rode OK for a couple of miles and it went back to 1 cylinder. Almost 3 miles from home went back to normal operation. Restarted in garage and everything was OK. Haven’t toggled through the diagnostic codes yet, but was curious if anyone has any obvious suspects to check. Thanks.
 
The below pics show where things went wrong with mine, the pins for right side coil and stepper burnt off the ecu. I took to a place and they ran wires through the back of the plug and joined at the stumps of the pins in the ecu.
 

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:blink:

Thanks for the photo post on this Ghost_Bullet!
 
Just found further records from the checks I made. (This all occured March 09)


Initial check
checked the diagnostic dash and found the following errors.

ECU 25 (error ignition coil 2 C.C. Gnd)
and what I have had for a few months now with no issue, ECU 60 (error stepper C.A.)
ECU plugs

Pin 9 - stepper + (broken off)
Pin 10 - right coil control (broken off)

Pin 18 - stepper -
Pin 19 - stepper -

Pin 26 - not used

Pin 37 right cylinder injector (appeared to be working)
Pin 38 left cylinder coil. (left coil had been working though)

The stepper motor was found to have fault last year in October(08), but not seen as critical at time to have repaired. If this previous failure has impacted on the now???
 
Awesome information, I appreciate it very much! :D Checked the dash diagnostics module and there were no codes stored (either I don't know how to read the module, or the codes get removed once the problem goes away). Rode it some yesterday with no problems though, but my confidence in the machine is not where it once was. One's got to wonder what went on, and if indeed the ECU pins are shorting out. Will either take to dealer (under warranty) or get into the ECU myself.
 
If under warranty I suggest taking it to the dealer. If it is a pin problem your action on them may give Guzzi a foundation to claim a maintenance induced failure. In other words, you messed it up.

Good luck
 
I would be sure to go in under warrenty if you can, as mine was outside of, and had the potential to cost thousands to replace ecu and loom as per shop recomendations.

I had the stepper error come up for a while before my full failure, and I had taken it to the shop, where they told me I may need to replace the stepper, but they obviously did not dig deep enough at that point, other than that the bike was running great.
 
Well, had the Griso hauled to the closest Guzzi shop (the Guzzi roadside assistance worked very well) last Saturday to deal with the firing issue. I have concerns since the service tech asked if the handlebar shaking was part of the problem!! :shock: Hope to hear back from them this week with a diagnosis.
 
Update: Cracked ignition lead to the spark plug was the problem. Diagnosed by spraying water around plug recess with engine running (technique recommended by MGUSA). Should have replacement lead in a week :lol: . Kudos to Broward Motorsports in West Palm Beach, Florida for really taking care of me and my Griso! :D
 
After riding a few hundred miles on the bike since having the ignition lead replaced, I've noted a dramatic boost in indicated fuel economy to a high of 41 mpg on the highway (55 - 65 mph). So it seems this electrical short was occurring since new (have almost 1,500 miles on it now) and was responsible for my mid-30's fuel economy then. Funny thing was I never noted an associated engine performance drop that much until the crack in the lead got worse and the bike would misfire dramatically. So, anyone experiencing such bad fuel economy while not flogging the bike might want to consider your plug leads as being suspect.
 
I just recently puchased a demo 2009 Griso w/ 1500 miles. Funny thing happened to me. First ride home on what was supposed to be a sunny day about 3 week Friday's ago, I ran into a drenching rain storm. Lost the RH cylinder when the spark plug failed. That pumped unspent fuel into the Termi pipe for about 3 miles in the rain and fried the pipe. I mean - it looked like lava had been poured down the entire lenght of the Termi. Turned it blue. The dealer replaced the pipe and both spark plugs, but the bike just runs rough.

I have been riding bikes for 30 years and have 3 in my garage (Kaw Concours 1400, Truimph Speedmaster, Griso). While I love the Griso for it's looks and uniquiness; I have been somewhat dissappointed by its performance. Very lurchy at 2000 - 3000 rpms. Not an enjoyable ride at all and at constant slightly opened throttle; cuising at 30 - 40 mph, just lurches along like a constipated donkey. I've asked ask about a new fuel map, TPS reset, etc .... I'd like to get this fixed and live down the street from Broward Motor Sports in West Plam Beach. I am glad you've had good luck there. I believe that will be my next stop.




Goodvibes said:
Update: Cracked ignition lead to the spark plug was the problem. Diagnosed by spraying water around plug recess with engine running (technique recommended by MGUSA). Should have replacement lead in a week :lol: . Kudos to Broward Motorsports in West Palm Beach, Florida for really taking care of me and my Griso! :D
Click to expand...
 
(Sigh?) Have the plug caps got three or two sealing rings? If three they should of been replaced during the cam recall. If they haven't I'd question if the recall has been done. Find out if your bike is eligible.

TAke off plug caps, (Which rather than the leads are the far more likely culprits.) and replace with NGK SBO5E caps.

MAke sure that the bike is tuned properly and has the #68 map in.

Can this be stickied somewhere?????

Pete
 
pedmondson said:
While I love the Griso for it's looks and uniquiness; I have been somewhat dissappointed by its performance. Very lurchy at 2000 - 3000 rpms. Not an enjoyable ride at all and at constant slightly opened throttle; cuising at 30 - 40 mph, just lurches along like a constipated donkey. I've asked ask about a new fuel map, TPS reset, etc ....
Click to expand...

Try fitting the dB killer back in the Termi (if it has one) as that may help with the lurching on light throttle. Alternatively, just keep it above 5000 :D !! I too have that problem and am waiting for the dealer Broward to get the ECU connector for their Axone to upload the -68 map. My lurching is not that severe since I still have the stock '8' silencer (am looking at swapping a Zard though).
 
pete roper said:
(Sigh?) Have the plug caps got three or two sealing rings? If three they should of been replaced during the cam recall. If they haven't I'd question if the recall has been done. Find out if your bike is eligible.
Click to expand...
Dunno, dealer kept the old one and I'm afraid to mess with it and cause more problems. I have the paperwork indicating the recall was performed and when I adjusted the tappets (thanks for the excellent tutorial Pete) I noted a thin metal shim sticking out beneath each L/R rocker pedestal (figured that was what the factory included in the kit to prove a recall was done).[/quote]
TAke off plug caps, (Which rather than the leads are the far more likely culprits.) and replace with NGK SBO5E caps.
Click to expand...
Will try to source these NGK caps . . . how do they fit on the lead?
MAke sure that the bike is tuned properly and has the #68 map in.
Click to expand...
Working with the dealer on this . . . they don't have the freakin' ECU connector!!!
Can this be stickied somewhere?????
Click to expand...
Should be, but don't know how.

Rick
 
The Termi is brand new and HAS the baffle in it. I made sure of that when I spoke the guys working on the bike.

I need to follow Pete's lead on ckecking the plug caps as evidence that the recall work was done at all. Also, I would love to determine if the latest map was downloaded into Griso.

Would any oridnary dyno shop be able to work this problem or do I need to deal with a motorcylce delearship?

Thanks

Goodvibes said:
pedmondson said:
While I love the Griso for it's looks and uniquiness; I have been somewhat dissappointed by its performance. Very lurchy at 2000 - 3000 rpms. Not an enjoyable ride at all and at constant slightly opened throttle; cuising at 30 - 40 mph, just lurches along like a constipated donkey. I've asked ask about a new fuel map, TPS reset, etc ....
Click to expand...

Try fitting the dB killer back in the Termi (if it has one) as that may help with the lurching on light throttle. Alternatively, just keep it above 5000 :D !! I too have that problem and am waiting for the dealer Broward to get the ECU connector for their Axone to upload the -68 map. My lurching is not that severe since I still have the stock '8' silencer (am looking at swapping a Zard though).
Click to expand...
 
pedmondson said:
I need to follow Pete's lead on checking the plug caps as evidence that the recall work was done at all. Also, I would love to determine if the latest map was downloaded into Griso.

Would any ordinary dyno shop be able to work this problem or do I need to deal with a motorcycle deadership?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Anyone with VDSTS can get the current map. You need Axone or Navigator (dealer tool) to upload a map. That said, if the Dyno shop had VDSTS, they can tell you the revision, but can't update if you don't have the latest.
 
pete roper said:
(Sigh?) Have the plug caps got three or two sealing rings? If three they should of been replaced during the cam recall. If they haven't I'd question if the recall has been done. Find out if your bike is eligible.

TAke off plug caps, (Which rather than the leads are the far more likely culprits.) and replace with NGK SBO5E caps.

MAke sure that the bike is tuned properly and has the #68 map in.

Can this be stickied somewhere?????

Pete
Click to expand...

Pete

Any plugcap recommendions for the 1100 2v ? - I'm still on the original elbow plugcaps and havent had any problems but replacements they are such a cheap addition that if theres a more reliable NGK alternative I'd rather fit them as a preventative.

If there hasnt been much evidence of originals being an issue on the 1100 2v I'm happy to stick with "its not broke so dont try n fix it"

Art
 
LB05F. You must use a plug where you can unscrew the tip as this plug cap connect directly to the threads.
 
I've just seen this thread. When I started reading – it seemed like the plug cap arcing. I see that's been confirmed.
Like others, I had that problem and it is well documented now. The original plug caps had a poor insulation area and some sticky-outy metal bits inside the cap and sparks can be seen jumping through the thin 'insulation' to the head.

As said, the simple fix is to fit the updated plug boots and leads (via dealer) or just order the NGK boot (preferably the elbowed one) and attached lead, bought from wherever.
 
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