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Intermittent Firing on Single Cylinder

Discussion in 'Griso-Bella Chat & Tech' started by Goodvibes, Mar 31, 2010.

  1. mattin

    mattin Just got it firing!

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    This is how NGK X4K spark plug cable & cap set fit to Quattro Valvole
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/mattinaskali/3947586024/in/set-72157622306305523/

    Another benefit, is that these caps don't have extra 5k ohm resistance. V8 spark plugs already have resistors. I think 10k ohms is just too much. Better fuel economy and power with less resistance, and I believe 5k ohm resistor in the plug is suficient for radio noise anyway.
    I wonder if the sealing rings, two or three, have no impact really? There is an opening to the spark plug compartment in the front of the cylinder head anyway.

    [​IMG]

    - Matti
     
  2. cytocycle

    cytocycle Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Matti,

    Thanks for your excellent photos and documentation. I ordered the NGK plug caps first but I'm considering replacing the plugs with the right angle ones you purchased.. I found a set delivered for $80 which I will consider after I see how the cheaper NGK ends that need to be bent work.

    Chris
     
  3. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    Don't even bother waiting for the new caps, for it is they that will be the problem, not the leads themselves. The new caps will be every bit as shitty as the old ones. Piss the caps off and simply fit a pair of NGK SB05E caps, (I found out that there ARE the ones you need, not the SB05F's), end of problem, go ride. Had to do it to my pink one the day after i got it!

    Pete
     
  4. cytocycle

    cytocycle Cruisin' Guzzisti

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  5. cytocycle

    cytocycle Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Ok I got the NGK SB05E and unscrewed my factory caps off only to be surprised that I have two male screws now (one on the Guzzi Factory Plug and one on the Plug cap?)

    Stupid Question: How to I install these?
    Does the factory screw come out of the wire by unscrewing?
    The NGK screw looks more like a wood screw and a slightly smaller diameter?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    See reply on other thread.

    pete
     
  7. cytocycle

    cytocycle Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Success!

    Thanks all!
    I cut the ends off and used the screw in the NGK cap to thread into the wire and the Griso started and idled even smoother, can't wait to take it for a ride next time! The factory replacements lasted less than 60 miles before arching through the boots. I will post pictures later when after I get back from the hardware store for some black bolts for my license plate frame.
     
  8. Mark111

    Mark111 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Recently replaced my stock plug caps with the NGK items, instant positive results. It is really quite simple.

    I'm interested in getting some feedback and have a question for those who have had this change of plug cap for some time:
    Have you had any issues with water or foreign matter getting into the plug recess in the cylinder head?

    As the NGK caps don’t have a sealing lip like the factory plug caps I want to know if I need to make up a seal of some sort to prevent water etc. getting in to the recess when riding in rain or washing my bike.
    This can be resolved before removing the plugs, with a high pressure air jet but if it has not been an issue for those who live in high rain level areas then it should not be a problem I need to worry about.

    Clearly if there is a build up of water and crap in the recess this is going to end up in the engine when you take the plug out so it is important to be careful ,which is why I would like to know of others experience.

    One point I should make is to make sure you can remove the plug cap without tugging on the lead as this will eventually cause them to separate and result in arcing. I secured some cord around the middle of the plug cap and had a few inches protrude out of the top of the plug recess but covered by the spark plug lead cover. To remove the cap I can just pull on the cord which is directly attached to the plug cap and therefore places no load on the plug lead. (not my idea, read it on this or some other forum)

    Mark
     
  9. GTM®

    GTM® Administrator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Mark, not to worry on the plug cap as the head has a drainage channel. Foreign matter will still collect even with the stock plug cap (as I have seen), so it's always good to use compressed air prior to removing the plug.

    There is a factory released bulletin (here on this Forum) showing how to remove the stock cap by pushing up from the bottom with a screw-driver.
     
  10. Mark111

    Mark111 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Thanks Todd, I will have a closer look.

    Mark
     
  11. Goodvibes

    Goodvibes Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Did the valves again this past weekend and dreaded possibly messing up the plug caps (again). Stumbled on the ziptie method of cap removal that worked flawlessly for me. Thought you'd like to know . . . .

    [youtube]XPQFl7W-H88[/youtube]
     
  12. sohcfour

    sohcfour Tuned and Synch'ed

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    This is interesting to me, as I have two of the problems mentioned in this thread. #1, I do get what I consider poor combustion and hesitation at low loads, and #2, terrible fuel econ in the low 30mpg range.

    My 09 8V should have the latest maps as well as TB balance and cam recall as I left it at Rosefarm this spring for just that!

    I tested the plug caps with the squirt bottle method and unfortunatley that was inconclusive. I do have a set of the recommended NGK plug caps coming today, anyway.


    A couple questions, then. Should I install the ngk caps anyway, out of precaution? If so, I think I need to clip an inch off the plug wire, right? Anything else I should be looking for as the culprit?

    Matt
     
  13. Goodvibes

    Goodvibes Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I'm running fine with a few turns of electrical tape on my left lead with no issues. Have the NGKs ready to go if needed though (at next valve adjust). Yup, clip the cable and screw the NGK on to it. I've been thinking of a novel way to seal the plug recess as you now longer have the ribbed grommet there. Some say its unnecessary, but I was riding in a heavy rainstorm this week and experienced some misfiring (presumably due to water shorting somewhere along the high tension leads). So I think some sort of seal would be prudent.
     
  14. Jlyon99

    Jlyon99 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I just picked up a 2010 Griso and have about 1,100 miles on it. My plug caps are pristine and have never even been pulled as far as I know, but I also started up last week and only 1 cylinder was firing. I took it in under warranty although I already knew what the issue was from this site. Unfortunately my dealer is primarily a scooter (Vespa) dealer so they had to order new caps after it took them a week to confirm it was the problem I told them it was.

    Anyway, my new leads will be no better so I'm wondering if I should do some precautionary wraps of tape around each? I really don't want to get stranded - already went through that when my BMW final drive went south out in the middle of nowhere.

    BTW, I LOVE this bike, but this lead problem is absurd.
     
  15. Goodvibes

    Goodvibes Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    No need to wrap if they're installing new caps (it's the removal tug that cracks the insulation at the cap elbow). But be prepared to either wrap or replace with NKGs at the next valve service (improve your odds by doing the zip tie removal technique, above). Agree it's an absurdity and any other manufacturer (= high volume) would have offered a more tolerant cap by now. There are other absurdities that won't leave you stranded like the short plug and fluid replacement intervals (I'm beginning to believe the second-on valve service interval could be doubled with no issues) and liver-spotting pipes. But hey, it's all Guzzi charm, rockin' handlebars and all!
     
  16. Jlyon99

    Jlyon99 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Well, 2-1/2 weeks later and bikes still in the shop. The shop ordered new plug caps under warranty, but Guzzi only shipped one. I brought in my NGK plug caps that I had intended to use as a replacement once it was running, and put one on. The bike did then run on both cylinders eventually, but idle was rough and too slow. The shop also installed the 68 map, when they assured me the "latest" map was installed when I bought it. I left the shop thinking it just needed some tweaking to fix the idle.

    Called them 2 days later to learn no progress. Got pissed and told them I was going to have to consider going to another shop. Two hours later got a call back and was told they had received wrong instructions from Guzzi as to how to balance throttle bodies and they were going to do it again. Received jubilant call stating that now the bike was running well enough that he was getting an error code for the coil and thus he knew where the problem was.

    I said but didn't you swap the coils along with the plug caps 2 weeks ago like we discussed? He said "no" because there was no error message. What the?

    I have to give the guy a little slack, because they've only sold one other Griso so it's hard to gain experience with such a low volume bike. On the other hand, a little old school common sense would be nice.

    Cant wait for the next call - 3 weeks approaching....
     
  17. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    Instructions for ballancing TB's are in the MANUAL which is ON THE SERVICEMOTOGUZZI WEBSITE.

    There is no shame in asking questions if you aren't sure, I will always ask for advice if its needed but I find the idea that they were given the wrong advice incredible, although maybe believable. I just hope that the shop didn't start digging away at the paint on the butterfly stop screw.

    The new bikes really aren't that hard, really. It's all in the manual and that which isn't is fairly intuitive.
     
  18. Jlyon99

    Jlyon99 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Yikes! It didn't occur to me that they could do permanent damage while learning. Now I'm nervous - time for another call tomorrow. Ahem, you guys ARE aware of the sacred screw, right?
     
  19. Jlyon99

    Jlyon99 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    After nearly 6 weeks in the shop, I just learned that the ECU seems to have been the problem and a test ride to the ocean was successful. Prior to this step, the plug leads and one coil had been replaced (with each step taking 1+ weeks for the parts to come in), with continued poor idling and only sometimes firing on both cylinders - worse when it got warm.

    Strange that this would happen so suddenly with only 1,000 miles on the clock, but at least we apparently have an answer. The ECU is a loaner from the tech folks on Costa Mesa, however, so I have to wait for my very own ECU to come in.

    I still love the bike, but hopefully this is the last incident of this sort.
     
  20. Jlyon99

    Jlyon99 Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Picked up the bike today after 6 weeks in the shop. It has a loaner ECU from the MG tech group in Costa Mesa and now runs great - better than new. This whole episode was a weird fluke, as an ECU typically doesn't just fail after 4 months of use. I'm happy and won't hold a grudge.
     

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