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Service warning and triangle - again

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by MotoZA, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Hi all,

    I need some remote diagnostic help/advise, I know it's largely guesswork...

    Here's my problem: I get an intermittent service warning and triangle when I switch the bike on, engine can be cold or warm, bike can be wet or dry. I know it's not the battery or it's terminals, not light bulbs, not relay contacts (I cleaned *all* of them), not the coil grounds, not the speedometer sensor, not spark plug related. The service warning goes away as soon as the engine is cranked (in other words, a split second after I've pushed the start button). I can push the start button for less than a second, without the bike starting, and the service warning goes away. The bike itself runs fine and pulls well.

    Any ideas what it could be? From reading this forum and some others, it seems like it may be the oil pressure sensor or its connections, but is there something else I should look at since I'm going to take the fuel tank off in any case to get to the oil pressure sensor.

    Here's a pic to make this post a bit more interesting, apologies for the BMW in the background :)

    ntx.png

    Thanks,

    William
    Stelvio NTX (MY2012)
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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  3. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I had a look just now, there's nothing active or in memo under ECU nor Dashboard Errors. Nothing, just o's, no x's -- I scrolled through twice just to make sure.
     
  4. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Very unusual. To get the warning there is usually a fault present or in memory. Next time the warning is displayed, go back and check again for error codes while the warning is still displayed.
     
  5. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    OK, will do. With my luck it won't throw the error again (which will then be good luck). Anyway...
     
  6. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    So this morning, I got the service warning again. Below the pictures I took before I started the bike, and as before, as soon as the bike fires up, the service warning goes away. Whilst the service warning was on I entered the diagnostics mode (didn't know you could do that whilst the warning is displayed), and I found an ECU error ('x' next to 54), see pic below.
    IMG_20180921_075145196.jpg IMG_20180921_075332171_HDR.jpg

    I only have the older (small fuel tank) Stelvio's service manual, and according to it, ECU error 54 is a "Signal Panel Error". On this forum, there's a thread that says it's the Instrument Panel.

    How do I solve this annoying error?
     
  7. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    Try cleaning the connectors to the dash and ECU with a good contact cleaner. Hopefully that may take care of the issue.
     
  8. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    OK, I'll give that a try. Thanks.
     
  9. boscoman

    boscoman Tuned and Synch'ed GT Contributor

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    I'm beginning to think that it is worth the time to use dielectric gel on all the relays & important contacts to prevent corrosion, failures, & error codes.
     
  10. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    So Friday, after writing the above post, the bike really struggled to start when I left work. It cranked (turned over) fine, but it wouldn't start. I left it a bit after trying to start the bike 4 or 5 times (worrying that I may drain the battery) and eventually got the bike going on the 6th or 7th try. Rode home, stopped on the way to put in fuel, and the bike started easily again after filling up. Got home without issues and parked the bike in the garage.

    Then, Saturday morning I tried starting the bike, and then it wouldn't start, it just cranks and nothing happens. I checked all the fuses and cleaned them, battery terminals for tightness and cleaned them, battery itself, cleaned the connectors to the dash and ECU as per John's suggestion, checked the fuel pump for loose connections and whether it's working, but couldn't find any issues, but the bike still won't start. At one point I got a single fire but then nothing. Gave up on the Stelvio on Sat because I had to service my other bike.

    I still have to check for spark, was too bright in my garage on Sat morning. What else can I check? Coils? ECU itself? Main ground? Swapping out relays? ...?

    Thanks!
     
  11. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    its a long shot, but if it starts ok when hot but not when cold, could it be the engine temp sensor that's in the block. it may be sending the wrong resistance to the ecu and that would alter the injector opening time and stepper motor. The "cold/hot" ohm value on my Breva are 9.7K at 0 C, dropping to 200 ohms at 100 C. its a NTC device.
     
  12. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks, I'll have a look at that too. Where exactly is the sensor located?
     
  13. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    On mine its on the inside of the right hand cylinder
     
  14. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Got it out and tested, it was reading about 4.7 kiloohm at ambient (about 15 C last night), held it in my hand a short while and saw the resistance dropping to 4.2 kiloohm on the multi-meter as I held it, so I don't think it's faulty.

    The wiring underneath the tank is quite messy -- is that normal? Still busy pulling and cleaning all the connectors I can see.

    I'll check the injectors, spark plug cords and phase sensor tonight. Oh boy...
     
  15. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Rather than work in the dark, it might be prudent to get some diagnostic software or find someone (dealer perhaps) that has something that might read any fault codes that won't be displaying on the dash.
     
  16. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    So got a chance to work on the bike again tonight, thought I'd check if there's spark, and we'll, there's nothing, which comes as a surprise because I have brand new plugs and caps. Both plugs are dead.

    There's a YouTube video of a guy with a Griso with an ECU error 54, and his bike does exactly what mine does. Just cranks and cranks and then eventually starts, much like mine did on Friday. According to him, it's the camshaft sensor. Apparently the Griso's code for ECU error 54 is rpm sensor.

    Yes, I'm waiting on my Diag tool, should arrive this week. The South African importer of Moto Guzzi went into liquidation last week (comes as no surprise to me), so no dealership help.

    Anyway, it's fun figuring it out.
     
  17. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    The camshaft sensor has a critical clearance adjustable by shims, yours may have come loose or out of adjustment?
     
  18. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    The cam position sensor can be checked with an ohm meter. It should read 680 ohms +/- 10% at 20 degrees C. Also the gap should be 0.6 to 1.2 mm. Experience says to try for 0.7mm.
     
  19. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Nah, it was properly secured (dry around the flange)
     
  20. MotoZA

    MotoZA Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Thanks, John, will check the gap. I did measure the resistance last night and it was measuring above 800 ohm, but will check again tonight. Will also power it to see if there's a state change if I flag it. Do you know the numbers for for this? (close to zero volt when flagged?)

    Any idea if a Magneti Marelli SEN 8D-8K is the same as the SEN 813? They sure look the same!
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018

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