Some 850 T5 questions

[davidguzzi]

Sorry . Spelt stuff wrong! :dry:

 

[shabba]

I think that, as suggested, im going to take it to someone. I checked for spark and im good. When i pull the right side plug, the bike continues to run with no change. Pull the left plug and the bike dies. I know thats primitive, but its all i can do at the moment. The carb has fuel flowing to it, just not out of it into the cylinder.

I want to ride so badly :laugh:

 

[shabba]

While I wait on my local guy to have a space to put my bike so he can look at it, I have been looking around and have read from several people that the symptom I am having, mainly a dead right cylinder, is a somewhat common occurence on bikes with a Dyna EI. I checked the spark on the bike and it has one, but I am unsure of how to check for how strong it is. I can pull the plug and boot, ground it to the head and see it sparking, but how would I measure how strong that spark is?

 

[john zibell]

I can pull the plug and boot, ground it to the head and see it sparking, but how would I measure how strong that spark is?

Without special equipment that is hard to find these days, you can't. Basically, if you have spark, you are good. In previous decades (1940s to about 1970), coil testers were common in garages, but with the advent of modern systems they seem to have gone away.

 

[shabba]

I can pull the plug and boot, ground it to the head and see it sparking, but how would I measure how strong that spark is?

Without special equipment that is hard to find these days, you can't. Basically, if you have spark, you are good. In previous decades (1940s to about 1970), coil testers were common in garages, but with the advent of modern systems they seem to have gone away.

Ok. I'm still fairly certain my issue is a fuel related problem, but I want to cover all the bases. I'm hoping that when my guy is done with my CB750, he can dive into the Guzzi...

 

[Trout]

I can pull the plug and boot, ground it to the head and see it sparking, but how would I measure how strong that spark is?

Without special equipment that is hard to find these days, you can't. Basically, if you have spark, you are good. In previous decades (1940s to about 1970), coil testers were common in garages, but with the advent of modern systems they seem to have gone away.

Old school rule of thumb: With a points & cond system Spark should be strong & blue across the gap, on an excellent system you will hear cracking. Weak & yellow is just that: weak spark, but even with a weak spark a guzzi will still run. Electronic ignitions like the Dyna will often create a "thinner" spark across the gap sorta like small lightning bolts.

Is the shop you're taking it to a general repair type bike shop working on all brands?

 

[lucky phil]

Sounds like a blocked fuel tank breather to me.
Ciao

 

[Trout]

Sounds like a blocked fuel tank breather to me.
Ciao

That was suggested earlier in the thread and it is still a good idea but that would usually affect both cylinders as it causes a vacuum in the tank decreasing fuel supply to both carbs. In a previous post the owner stated that one plug is fouled and the other clean & very hot so the problem is different on each cylinder.

I wonder if you got the slides back in correctly? They are square and can be installed backwards. The side with the "cut out" goes to the back. May also want to check the choke slide on the side that is running rich. The choke on one carb would give you rich and the slide in backwards would kill the other cylinder. Just a suggestion.

 

[shabba]

I can pull the plug and boot, ground it to the head and see it sparking, but how would I measure how strong that spark is?

Without special equipment that is hard to find these days, you can't. Basically, if you have spark, you are good. In previous decades (1940s to about 1970), coil testers were common in garages, but with the advent of modern systems they seem to have gone away.

Old school rule of thumb: With a points & cond system Spark should be strong & blue across the gap, on an excellent system you will hear cracking. Weak & yellow is just that: weak spark, but even with a weak spark a guzzi will still run. Electronic ignitions like the Dyna will often create a "thinner" spark across the gap sorta like small lightning bolts.

Is the shop you're taking it to a general repair type bike shop working on all brands?

The spark I am getting is just that: a small bolt. It's white. The guy I am taking the bike to is a local guy who ahs been working on bikes for 30 years. He is a Triumph guy and has experience with the italians. I trust him and several of the locals around here have recommended him, one of whom is a Ducati guy.

 

[shabba]

Sounds like a blocked fuel tank breather to me.
Ciao

That was suggested earlier in the thread and it is still a good idea but that would usually affect both cylinders as it causes a vacuum in the tank decreasing fuel supply to both carbs. In a previous post the owner stated that one plug is fouled and the other clean & very hot so the problem is different on each cylinder.

I wonder if you got the slides back in correctly? They are square and can be installed backwards. The side with the "cut out" goes to the back. May also want to check the choke slide on the side that is running rich. The choke on one carb would give you rich and the slide in backwards would kill the other cylinder. Just a suggestion.

Where is the breather? I was pretty thorough with the tank when I cleaned it and took my time. As far as the slides, yes, I put them back in right...the right side was actually running before I pulled the left side. Now, it's the right side that is dead. As an update on the lean/rich cylinders, I cleaned both plugs and now the left side plug is no longer hot and lean looking...it's clean and a little blackened looking. The right side is still a little damp.

 

[Trout]

The breather / vent is in the fuel cap basically just an air hole, when they clog the bike runs out of gas. When you open the fuel cap the bike will run normal until it creates a vacuum in the tank and the fuel won't flow.

Sounds like a good shop, I like good all around mechanics, specializing is for insects.

Do I understand correctly that the bike is totally dead on the right side but runs on the left and the plug gets wet?

The spark description sounds normal for Electronic Ignition but bear in mind I have very little experience with them. Is it the same for both sides?

Trout

 

[shabba]

The breather / vent is in the fuel cap basically just an air hole, when they clog the bike runs out of gas. When you open the fuel cap the bike will run normal until it creates a vacuum in the tank and the fuel won't flow.

Sounds like a good shop, I like good all around mechanics, specializing is for insects.

Do I understand correctly that the bike is totally dead on the right side but runs on the left and the plug gets wet?

The spark description sounds normal for Electronic Ignition but bear in mind I have very little experience with them. Is it the same for both sides?

Trout

When I get home tonight, I'll test both and see. I was only checking the right side so that makes sense to see if they are similar in color and strength. As far as the cap goes, I'll look into that as well. As I recall, last weekend when the bike was running at it's worst (but still running), I took the cap off and the bike immediately died.

The guy I go to has the respect of every biker in my community that I know or have spoken with, all brands and experience length. That's enough for me to trust him.

 

[shabba]

Update: I've traded out coils and am sure now that my problem is fuel related. The coil swapping made no difference. What DID make a difference was spraying carb cleaner into the carb as the bike was running. Primitive, yes, but when I sprayed the cleaner directly into the carb, the bike ran on both cylinders for a moment. I pulled the carb off and fired the bike up to see if I was getting any fuel into the cylinder. Nothing came out (and yes, I left the fuel line on with the petcock on).

Am I on to something or just being stupid? Or both?

 

[john zibell]

Update: I've traded out coils and am sure now that my problem is fuel related. The coil swapping made no difference. What DID make a difference was spraying carb cleaner into the carb as the bike was running. Primitive, yes, but when I sprayed the cleaner directly into the carb, the bike ran on both cylinders for a moment. I pulled the carb off and fired the bike up to see if I was getting any fuel into the cylinder. Nothing came out (and yes, I left the fuel line on with the petcock on).

Am I on to something or just being stupid? Or both?

How can you get fuel to come out when the carb isn't connected to the engine? There must be airflow to draw fuel (Venturi effect) to the cylinder. Sounds like blocked passages so fuel isn't being drawn into the airstream.

 

[shabba]

Update: I've traded out coils and am sure now that my problem is fuel related. The coil swapping made no difference. What DID make a difference was spraying carb cleaner into the carb as the bike was running. Primitive, yes, but when I sprayed the cleaner directly into the carb, the bike ran on both cylinders for a moment. I pulled the carb off and fired the bike up to see if I was getting any fuel into the cylinder. Nothing came out (and yes, I left the fuel line on with the petcock on).

Am I on to something or just being stupid? Or both?

How can you get fuel to come out when the carb isn't connected to the engine? There must be airflow to draw fuel (Venturi effect) to the cylinder. Sounds like blocked passages so fuel isn't being drawn into the airstream.

Perhaps I should have been more clear... There was no fuel in the bowls and no matter which way I turned the carb, nothing would come out, dribble or not. The fuel is most definitely NOT coming out of the carburetor into the cylinder. Perhaps I should rebuild the carb as a basic cleaning has not worked.

 

[Trout]

Back to basics and the beginning of this post. Fuel tank crud.
Make sure there is fuel in the tank.
Leave fuel hose off carb.
Open petcock.
Does fuel come out of hose? If not there is the problem: Fuel tank crud.
If fuel comes out and there is no fuel in the carb bowl the needle valve/seat &/or float is screwed. I think I mentioned this before.

If you have had the carb off and have been turning it upside down & all around then you most likely have screwed up the float etc.... ADVICE: take it to the shop before you cause more problems than you want to spend money on.

Trout
No wonder Pete Roper went pop fizz & is on leave.

 

[shabba]

Back to basics and the beginning of this post. Fuel tank crud.
Make sure there is fuel in the tank.
Leave fuel hose off carb.
Open petcock.
Does fuel come out of hose? If not there is the problem: Fuel tank crud.
If fuel comes out and there is no fuel in the carb bowl the needle valve/seat &/or float is screwed. I think I mentioned this before.

If you have had the carb off and have been turning it upside down & all around then you most likely have screwed up the float etc.... ADVICE: take it to the shop before you cause more problems than you want to spend money on.

Trout
No wonder Pete Roper went pop fizz & is on leave.

The tank is good. Before I have done anything at all with the carbs, I've made sure I have fuel. The tank has 2.5 gallons of high-test in it. I've made sure I have flow from each petcock and i've drained it into clear containers to see if there is any sort of containament. I've done this while the petcock was on "on" and "reserve". The fuel getting to the carbs is fine.

The floats do worry me as there is no fuel getting to them. I'm looking to order rebuild kits for both carbs to be on the safe side. Once my mechanic has an opening, the bike is going to him. As it is, my CB is at his place and waiting on parts that should have been here Friday. Once they come in today, I should have the Guzzi at his place by tomorrow or thursday.

 

[john zibell]

Sounds like the passage from the banjo fitting to the needle valve is blocked. Remove the carbs, then the floats and needle valve. Clean that passage out. Re-assemble (be sure to set the float height) and see if fuel flows.

 

[Supaflee]

I reckon I should chime in about here.
I had precisely the same problem . Bike would idle , run ok for about 3km's then putter out on one cylinder .
My carbs are Mikunis.
The R/H carb had had the float activating lever fitted upside down .The bowl only ever got a piddly amount of fuel into the bottom , never enough to get near the Main Jet , I reckonned only about 3mm in the bowl.
Hell it caused me problems until I checked the float levels.
Once I fixed it , and it was installed as Mr Mikuni had designed it to be , the carb bowl filled with fuel to the correct level and the rest of the bike goes like a scalded Guzzi. (Suprisingly damn well actually)
Its worth having a little check to see that the Float valve actuators are both the same way up .
Betcha one is wrong.
Hahaha
Regards Supaflee

 

[shabba]

I reckon I should chime in about here.
I had precisely the same problem . Bike would idle , run ok for about 3km's then putter out on one cylinder .
My carbs are Mikunis.
The R/H carb had had the float activating lever fitted upside down .The bowl only ever got a piddly amount of fuel into the bottom , never enough to get near the Main Jet , I reckonned only about 3mm in the bowl.
Hell it caused me problems until I checked the float levels.
Once I fixed it , and it was installed as Mr Mikuni had designed it to be , the carb bowl filled with fuel to the correct level and the rest of the bike goes like a scalded Guzzi. (Suprisingly damn well actually)
Its worth having a little check to see that the Float valve actuators are both the same way up .
Betcha one is wrong.
Hahaha
Regards Supaflee

So..... though I am reading this on Thursday morning, I did this very thing Wednesday night. Success! This is exactly what was wrong with the carb. I can take blame when I am at fault for something, but in this case, it appears as though the PO had fiddled with it and had not set the needle actuator right. The float was pressing down on the needle at all times keeping it closed except for the rare occasion where it would put a little bit in the bowl and the bike would actually run. As I had stated before, the carbs were surprisingly clean inside and this was no exception. I would guess the float needle was fairly new as the rubber looked like it had never seen fuel before.

I was only able to ride the bike 10 miles last night as we had some nasty storms in the Chesterfield area. However, it ran really well so tonight, barring lightning, I'm going to take it on a solid 50 mile round trip to see if it's ready to be ridden to work.