Coolant Leak

[keremarsan]

Alright, did have my first failure of the Guzzi this week. During riding on sunday I noticed that my left boot became slippery, so stopped immediately to prevent crashing. I was worried about an oil leak somewhere, but this worry was soon tempered when I smell some coolant.



View attachment 29021

The coolant came from in between the cilinders, but with all the plastic, it was not visible what the source was. The coolant reservoir was already empty, so it was not a small leakage. Called my wife to pick me up with the van.
Because it was sunday, and have to wait till tuesday for the dealer to open, I did remove some plastics myself. It could be a minor issue like a hose clamp or some sort.
But after removing 1000 screws to remove the plastic, screen, tank, airbox (was not fixed well enough)……I still did not see the source of the leak.
What I did notice during the removal of most of the plastics, is a loose wire connector nearby the ignitionkey. It was loose, and I did not fix it afterwarts. Does anyone no where this is for? I do not have wiring diagrams.

View attachment 29022

View attachment 29023

View attachment 29024

Removing the throttlebodies was a bridge to far, so I decided to build everything back togheter and call the dealer ASAP.
They found the leak: It was a badly mounted hose clamp, that damaged the hose. It was fixed and on wednesday I was riding again.

Learned some things:
The V100 is put together with haste
A lot of screws are used
The thermostat is placed in between the cilinders.
View attachment 29025
Stunning looking bike!

I agree totally with your opinion that V100 was built with haste ... This is what I thought after some issue that I experienced. But , I believe , every problem will resolved in time and for us : as the first built one's owners ...

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Ugh…

Stop with the ridiculous Moto Guzzi bashing. PLEASE!

It was not “built with haste”. I promise you. It was developed and tested over a very long time period.

There is not one single manufacturer of any vehicle in the world, that does not discover things once the product is put into daily use by the general public. NOT ONE.

Don’t believe me? Walk to the service department of any vehicle made. You will find new vehicles getting something updated or repaired. It’s just the way complex machinery like cars and motorcycles are.

 

[BDS]

Yep, you shoulda read my wife’s post about our new GE washing machine! Whew. I digress.

 

[Steve Jordan]

My V100 is back in at the dealer who had ordered a water pump gasket to stop the ongoing coolant weap. Having dismantled the bike they found a leak from the thermostat housing gasket. Awaiting a warranty claim and replacement gasket. Hopefully will not take too long but without the bike for a week.

Have been to the dealer for an update. The bike was in a state of reassembly waiting for some engine sealant to cure. They had replaced the water pump gasket with a new laminated metal one having taken off the faulty paper original. A new O ring was installed in the thermostat housing along with the engine sealant to ensure no further leaks. They were going to start the engine up and check that it has no more leaks before completing the assembly. I am still waiting an update. Since having the bike in February it has been in the garage over 3 weeks. No parts available in the UK waiting for Italy to send them. Hopeful to get the bike back Thursday. At least I have a V7 to use.

 

[BDS]

Good luck, Steve… hope you get it back, and all is good!

 

[GmaninAZ]

LOOK Update on coolant leak:
I decided while deep into the V of the motor, after having to remove the right-side throttle body just to get to the hose clamp that was leaking, to replace all four of the larger OE "clip-on/crimp-on type hose clamps with worm gear drive type clamps similar to the OE clamps used at the radiator connections. There are three of these clamps on the left side hoses, with a interconnecting aluminum pipe with bypass pipe branching off, that runs from the radiator to the water pump (the leak was from the clamp at the front of the aluminum connecting pipe, that connects the pipe to the hose going to the left-side radiator connection). There is one more clamp on the right-side hose coming from the radiator, at the thermostat housing under the throttle body. Once I was in there, I did not want to ever do this again so replaced all of them. I also corrected the interference between said aluminum pipe and inboard alternator mounting bracket, and also at the bottom of the left throttle body (plastic composite); it is very tightly packaged. Here are a few of the images I took to give an idea of where they are at, and a pretty cool look down the throttle body. Looking at the size and shape of the port, and intake valve size, it looks like Guzzi may have left some room for more airflow potential: Anyway, it is all buttoned up and I went for a ride early this morning to my favorite little canyon.

 

[BDS]

Nice documentation… it looks tight in there, for sure. I hope it runs like a champ, no leaks, and that you won’t have to open her up again for a good while!

 

[GmaninAZ]

Nice documentation… it looks tight in there, for sure. I hope it runs like a champ, no leaks, and that you won’t have to open her up again for a good while!

Thanks! No leaks, they're just hose clamps... but I get it. I heat cycled it 4 times before re-installing all the bodywork. Runs great, seems even smoother... maybe because that aluminum pipe is not touching anything now, or maybe it's like when you wash and detail your vehicle. it just seems to run better and smoother?

 

[Nordicnorm]

This bike is probably not in my future, but I am very impressed with your effort at documenting this for the benefit of us all. This is the sprit of our forum. Go definitely get it!!
And as a fresh member, I can only hope you will stick around.

 

[GmaninAZ]

This bike is probably not in my future, but I am very impressed with your effort at documenting this for the benefit of us all. This is the sprit of our forum. Go definitely get it!!
And as a fresh member, I can only hope you will stick around.

Thank you! In spite of the coolant issue and the effort it took me to repair it, and I can say it is repaired correctly and with care. I am retired and can take as much time as needed to get it right. I can say I truly appreciate and admire the engineering and attention to detail they put into it. It is a pleasure to ride. If I were you, I definitely would never take one for a test/demo ride!

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Yes. A shame for the assembly line gremlins, training and QC teething problems. I will get them corrected and gone, as the V100 is absolutely brilliant.

G

Honestly. This is simply a specification vs real world function.

For the life of me, I scratch my head at those who are loosing their minds over this on the internet.

It is obvious to me that the original single hump ear clamps that were originally specified, were chosen for ease of removal and replacement.

Unfortunately given this “fixed” position of the tension hump, they needed to be ever so slightly smaller so that the tension would have been increased.

This is not a defect nor is it even remotely indicative of incompetence by the factory.

It’s just something that appeared once the motorcycles got into the public’s hands.

As you said…teething pains.

Thank you Gary for an EXCELLENT and very valuable post! I hope you post many more in the future.

 

[GmaninAZ]

Honestly. This is simply a specification vs real world function.

For the life of me, I scratch my head at those who are loosing their minds over this on the internet.

It is obvious to me that the original single hump ear clamps that were originally specified, were chosen for ease of removal and replacement.

Unfortunately given this “fixed” position of the tension hump, they needed to be ever so slightly smaller so that the tension would have been increased.

This is not a defect nor is it even remotely indicative of incompetence by the factory.

It’s just something that appeared once the motorcycles got into the public’s hands.

As you said…teething pains.

Thank you Gary for an EXCELLENT and very valuable post! I hope you post many more in the future.

First let me thank you for the kind words, they are sincerely appreciated.
I must however disagree with " this is simply a specification vs real world function", and "it is obvious to me that the original single hump ear clamps that were originally specified, were chosen for ease of removal and replacement"
The clamps, (1 ea. CLIC R 96-375 at the water pump, and 3 ea. CLIC R 96-350 at the other hose connections) have a double hump. But one hump or two, would not be my choice in the environment they are to perform in. They would be fine for breather hoses and low er stress/temperature situations. Also, in the manufacturing world there is what's called tolerance stack up. So if say the rubber hose wall thickness, the thermostat spigot, water pump spigot and aluminum connector pipe were all at the low end of the tolerance spec,, and the CLIC R clamps are at the high end there is a potential problem. and if the tool used to install the CLIC R clamps is off a little to the big end of the calibration spec, we have problems. If worm gear clamps are used, with a properly calibrated and verified torque tool at the start of each shift for proper torque, which will compensate for any tolerance stack ups regardless because it relies on a set torque value, we would not be hearing of any coolant leaks. The CLIC R clamps were not chosen for the convenience of "ease of removal and replacement", but purely from a standpoint of cost, both in manufacturing the clamp, and in labor time installing them. Look at a good worm gear clamp and think of the manufacturing cost for it vs the CLIC R type, then the time involved to "snap" on a CLIC R vs installing a worm gear clamp. All of the clamps used are the CLIC R type, EXCEPT the final two connections to the radiator. And, why would ease of removal and replacement be of concern with cooling system hoses? When was the last time you had to R&R a coolant system hose clamp, let alone have a leak, unless on an old vehicle with many miles on it, or to get at a component? These CLIC R clamps would surely be replaced and not re-used anyway. Given there are only four of the larger hose clamps, and these are where the leaks are at, wouldn't it make sense to use a quality worm gear type clamp? I hope I did not ruffle your feathers, and I hope MG has this QC issue corrected, because it is truly an exceptional motorcycle.

Check out the info on the Caillau products website for CLIC R and NEMO clamps. I used NEMO to replace them.

Cheers, Keep the shiny side UP

 

[scottmastrocinque]

First let me thank you for the kind words, they are sincerely appreciated.
I must however disagree with " this is simply a specification vs real world function", and "it is obvious to me that the original single hump ear clamps that were originally specified, were chosen for ease of removal and replacement"
The clamps, (1 ea. CLIC R 96-375 at the water pump, and 3 ea. CLIC R 96-350 at the other hose connections) have a double hump. But one hump or two, would not be my choice in the environment they are to perform in. They would be fine for breather hoses and low er stress/temperature situations. Also, in the manufacturing world there is what's called tolerance stack up. So if say the rubber hose wall thickness, the thermostat spigot, water pump spigot and aluminum connector pipe were all at the low end of the tolerance spec,, and the CLIC R clamps are at the high end there is a potential problem. and if the tool used to install the CLIC R clamps is off a little to the big end of the calibration spec, we have problems. If worm gear clamps are used, with a properly calibrated and verified torque tool at the start of each shift for proper torque, which will compensate for any tolerance stack ups regardless because it relies on a set torque value, we would not be hearing of any coolant leaks. The CLIC R clamps were not chosen for the convenience of "ease of removal and replacement", but purely from a standpoint of cost, both in manufacturing the clamp, and in labor time installing them. Look at a good worm gear clamp and think of the manufacturing cost for it vs the CLIC R type, then the time involved to "snap" on a CLIC R vs installing a worm gear clamp. All of the clamps used are the CLIC R type, EXCEPT the final two connections to the radiator. And, why would ease of removal and replacement be of concern with cooling system hoses? When was the last time you had to R&R a coolant system hose clamp, let alone have a leak, unless on an old vehicle with many miles on it, or to get at a component? These CLIC R clamps would surely be replaced and not re-used anyway. Given there are only four of the larger hose clamps, and these are where the leaks are at, wouldn't it make sense to use a quality worm gear type clamp? I hope I did not ruffle your feathers, and I hope MG has this QC issue corrected, because it is truly an exceptional motorcycle.

Check out the info on the Caillau products website for CLIC R and NEMO clamps. I used NEMO to replace them.

Cheers, Keep the shiny side UP

You are obviously very knowledgeable on those particular clamps. I appreciate the great learning. Thank you.

To clarify, it's not my point to say that they didn't make a mistake there. It's obvious that they did, but you misunderstand me.

I continue to believe that "this is simply a specification vs real world function" issue, namely because they have specified a different clamp now which is good. Problem discovered and rectified. However when I said "replacement", the more accurate term would have been "renewal". I was not at all implying that one would reuse the same clamp. I was referring to the fact that the clamp is open ended, vs a worm clamp makes it much easier to quickly and efficiently place it around a hose.

My point has always been that there is not a single manufacturer of any modern vehicle of any kind in the world, that does not have issues that arise like this with a new design. They all do. It is not indicative of bad engineering or idiots at the helm.

I've said it in another post on the exact same topic, in my workshop, I never used worm gear clamps. Their quality varies widely and they are unreliable and subject to age deterioration and vibration in my experience. If I needed to clamp a hose of any kind, in any way, for any purpose, I used Oetiker clamps. Not the asian knockoffs, but genuine Oetiker clamps. Single and double ear. I never once ever had a single return for a leak of any kind. They are precision made and they are indexed on every one. Worth every penny.

Regardless, I hope too that this gets resolved. I want to see the company thrive because I love the marque.

 

[GmaninAZ]

Alright, did have my first failure of the Guzzi this week. During riding on sunday I noticed that my left boot became slippery, so stopped immediately to prevent crashing. I was worried about an oil leak somewhere, but this worry was soon tempered when I smell some coolant.



View attachment 29021

The coolant came from in between the cilinders, but with all the plastic, it was not visible what the source was. The coolant reservoir was already empty, so it was not a small leakage. Called my wife to pick me up with the van.
Because it was sunday, and have to wait till tuesday for the dealer to open, I did remove some plastics myself. It could be a minor issue like a hose clamp or some sort.
But after removing 1000 screws to remove the plastic, screen, tank, airbox (was not fixed well enough)……I still did not see the source of the leak.
What I did notice during the removal of most of the plastics, is a loose wire connector nearby the ignitionkey. It was loose, and I did not fix it afterwarts. Does anyone no where this is for? I do not have wiring diagrams.

View attachment 29022

View attachment 29023

View attachment 29024

Removing the throttlebodies was a bridge to far, so I decided to build everything back togheter and call the dealer ASAP.
They found the leak: It was a badly mounted hose clamp, that damaged the hose. It was fixed and on wednesday I was riding again.

Learned some things:
The V100 is put together with haste
A lot of screws are used
The thermostat is placed in between the cilinders.
View attachment 29025
Stunning looking bike!

I had a similar hose clamp leak, but it was the front clamp on the aluminum connection pipe between the radiator hose , and the 90 degree hose to water pump. Please see my post "Owner Resolved Coolant Leak". I ended up replacing all four clamps with worm gear drive clamps while into the V of the motor, and had to remove then right side throttle body to get to them.

 

[GmaninAZ]

Sounds like maybe it's not those bolts then? Interesting yours didn't start leaking until 900 miles. Mine was leaking after the 1st ride.

You're right, the leak(s) are from the "Clic R" brand OEM crimp type clamps on either of the two coolant hoses: one hose from radiator to aluminum connection pipe, the other hose from pipe to water pump. See "Owner Resolved Coolant Leak" post.

 

[Steve Jordan]

Back on the road at last having had the water pump gasket replaced with a new design of gasket. It is now laminated metal and not paper. The thermostat housing o ring replaced and sealed with engine sealant. The radiator union was leaking and was repaired locally by a radiator specialist. No major leaks now but there have been a couple of hose leaks. The bike is in use as the hose leaks are minor and intermittent. I have done 4300 miles since February so it is well used could have been more if it was not at the dealer for a month.

 

[jofra]

It seems to me that these water leaks have been fixes in these last versions no? I don't see anyone new complaining about this problem.

 

[GmaninAZ]

It seems to me that these water leaks have been fixes in these last versions no? I dont see anyone new complaining about this problem (foruns, facebook groups)

My coolant hose clamp leak began showing up around 180 miles on the clock, I took delivery the end of May

 

[santuz]

mine was leaking from hose clamps only, maybe issues with water pump gasket and thermostat have been fixed directly in the factory, hose clamps no.

 

[Marco68]

Hello,
If you see coolant leaking from the underside of the radiator, the radiator cap is faulty.
I had the problem myself and I saw a second case on Facebook, so it's highly likely that others are also affected.
It happens when the bike is stationary, the engine is hot and the ignition is switched off. It sounds like a pressurised steam pot and suddenly there's a leak under the radiator.

o