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Refurbishing my 2007 Norge

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by mylovelyhorse, May 15, 2019.

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  1. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    Dunno ... darn it.

    Am in Erie, Pa., to pick up my (97-YO!) father-in-law and his 85-YO (!) girlfriend of 36 years.

    Taking them back to our place at the top of Virginia for a few days.

    Because the girlfriend is an old-school, white-glove, self-appointed inspector-general of any place she visits, Kathi and I have been housecleaning in a frantic way for the past week.

    We are hardly slobs, but, tho I curse "Grace" for the house work that keeps me from putzing in the Moto Grappa, it's an excuse to do some major cleaning that we put off otherwise.

    We head home with them in the car this afternoon. "Thoughts and prayers" are scorned these days in many quarters; I, OTOH, would be grateful for those.

    Bill
     
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  2. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Curses :(

    Crikey, at least that bodes well for your longevity! :)

    What joy :eek:

    Will generalised hippy vibes do, man? If so, please find 1,212 enclosed :)
     

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  3. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    We did that with my mother-in-law. Unfortunately she has now been diagnosed with Alzheimers, so those "few days" have been extended just a bit.
     
  4. Nick

    Nick Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Bill, don't ever make fun of my "trailer" again ;-) Nick
     
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  5. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    Slept in the Moto Grappa last night. A first for me, but I am not the first to have found it a pleasant resting place.

    [​IMG]

    But our visitors want the heat set so high in the house that it is intolerable ... at least for me. :swear:

    Condolences, Brian, on your mother-in-law's Alzheimers. BTDT with my dad and mom. Good for you and your wife for putting your shoulder to that heavy wheel.

    Bill

    P.S. Nick, I am ignoring you. :giggle:
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
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  6. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    There has been a lengthy pause on Norge activities, partly due to work, partly due to a nasty chest infection, but mostly due to Life Getting In The Way. This afternoon I started rectifying that by tidying up the garage, sorting out tools and having a look at some of the wiring the Dreaded Previous Owner had added.

    Some may recall that the Norge has twin aftermarket horns. There’s no particularly obvious sign of the original cable feeding the OEM horn but instead there’s an off white cable (domestic 1mm flex as far as I can tell) running from where it’s spliced into the loom near the left hand coil...
    [​IMG]

    This cable runs along the top of the frame neatly getting in the way of the air box and tank installation (or resting on the top of the engine, which is most certainly wasn’t designed to do) and leading back to a pair of relays cable tied to the battery cap:
    [​IMG]

    In turn, these beauties send power down more domestic cabling (black this time) to the two horns.

    I cannot bear to leave this exactly as is, but I’m not going to try to diagnose and rectify something I suspect was either done to deal with a lack of voltages to the original horn (i.e. a break in the original loom) or which was needed to power the pair of new horns.

    So in the spirit of dodgy electrics I am going to do the following:

    1. Replace the two horn feeds with good quality auto electrical cabling in heat sheathing
    2. Replace the off-white cable with another length of good quality auto electrical cabling in heat sheathing
    3. Mount the cables where they do not interfere with the air box and tank but also don’t get an opportunity to melt on the engine

    While I am doing that I am going to try and find out where the rest of this nest of wires goes, especially for those two relays. There’s a fused feed to -ve & +ve, for a start.

    I went over the various loom connectors up the pointy end near the alternator and cleaned them all with electrical cleaner spray. There was green on one or two copper connectors but that has now been gently scraped off.

    On Friday a good mate is coming over. I very much hope to have the electrics sorted in evening sessions before then. I hope that with him here we’ll get the exhausts, the air box, the tank and the nose cone & instruments back on. I can then take it for a short run to warm the engine up. After that I’m going to Gunk the engine to clean it, change the engine oil and filter & maybe also if there’s time I’ll check the valves. That reminds me, must order new rocker gaskets.

    Realistically there won’t be time for all that on one day, but hey, a chap’s got to have ambition you know
     
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  7. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    I replaced my Breva horn with air horns, I used the existing horn wire to operate a relay which in turn operated the compressor. You may find the previous owner spliced the original horn wires to a wire going to one of those relays and then a feed from the relay back to the two horns. Just a thought.
     
  8. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    I did the same when I fitted the Stebel. The original wire would not be up to powering a high power horn. A relay is more or less essential.
     
  9. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    And now you’ve mentioned it, I’ll bet that is what they’ve done. I’ll replace the cabling with better stuff and with good quality connectors - and heat shield it - and leave the essential setup the same.
     
  10. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    This evening I have mostly been working on my Norge. This evening’s musical accompaniment was provided by Genesis so please hum “Supper’s Ready” while you read ;)

    Firstly I thought I’d whip out the neutral switch and give it a clean. It was in fact just fine, see below. I put it back in and will nip it up later (left myself a note to remind me to torque it up).

    [​IMG]

    Then I turned to look at the cabling for the horns. That’s two relays, a feed from the loom and two cables down to the horns. God what a mess. This pic is the nest of cabling around the relays.

    [​IMG]

    There’s a feed from the battery to one relay, looped over to the other relay. I ended up tracing out a rough wiring diagram (needs cleaning up).

    [​IMG]

    The only minor problem is that I don’t have any info on the cabling at the horn end - I think that it was one cable to each horn but as one had fallen off when I was taking the fairing off, I can’t be 100% sure. The nest 2 pictures show the relays. They appear to be very similar, although actually slightly different and has an extra (unused) terminal.

    [​IMG]

    and

    [​IMG]

    I’ve put in some proper automotive cabling, in some heat resistant sheath and labelled them up so that there’s a vague hope I might get things right when it goes back together...

    [​IMG]

    I’m going to replace the relays, I think, or at least mount them properly instead of with a cable tie as per the dreaded previous owner’s effort. I shall also be replacing the cable spliced into the loom with similarly automotive cabling suitably heat shielded.

    I hate vehicle electrics :(
     
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  11. Kevin.NZ

    Kevin.NZ Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    yep, looks like the original horn connectors go to 85 and 86 to operate each relay, then when operated power goes via the fuse to pin 30 which is the common and then to pin 87 and puts 12v onto the horn, I reckon you could get away with using just one relay, its rated at 30A , 2 relays seems over kill to me. BTW whats the component wired across the relay coil on the Grey relay. (pin 85 and 86?)
    Kev
     
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  12. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Goes off to the loom - or feeds from the loom (seems more likely). It’s spliced into the loom up forward and to the left of the alternator & frame rail. I had assumed it was the feed from the switch - the original horn feed, most likely. I can’t find / think of anything else it could be. Dreaded Previous Owner has used household flex for this, hence the blue & brown colours.
     
  13. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT di Razza Pura

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    You have a redundant relay in my opinion. A single 30 amp relay is capable of powering both horns. You can simplify things by using just one relay.
     
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  14. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Thx. I wondered why there were two - but then I’ve often wondered what the DPO was doing on this bike :-/
     
  15. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Yes, having two relays is a total overkill. Keep one as a spare.
    It's a sad fact that some people with little knowledge insist on making changes that they don't understand. You have the result right there.
     
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  16. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Yeah. Having 2 feeds from one relay down to the horns would be wiring in parallel not series. I wonder if achieving a separate feed to each horn was the reason for the two relays and two feeds? Somewhat overkill, unless the horns really needed it.

    I might be better off replacing one of the relays (I like the thought of a nice new relay), binning the other and replacing the two horns with one new confirmed working one. All this and I very rarely use the horn anyhow... :)
     
  17. Bill Hagan

    Bill Hagan GT Reference GT Famiglia

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    I don't know why I "liked" this post, because I so heartily concur with your assessment about electrics. :cry:

    In that regard, Nick and other Guzzisti (meaning a total of two other '07 Norge owners) converge on the Moto Grappa today to do some winter's work on Nick's Norge and mine.

    My problem is the mysterious "no charging." My own cursory inspection revealed that the alternator belt is still in place, so the search goes elsewhere. Think I'll start with the ground to the starter motor, an issue with early Norges. Lord knows where beer and incompetence will lead us. :rofl:

    As for wrenching accompaniment of the musical kind, believing as I do that (with the possible exception of some Big Band tunes) nothing worth listening to was written after c.1904 :giggle:, I leave this radio station on in the Moto Grappa 24/7: https://weta.org/fm. I do mute it when Sibelius or the like are playing. ;)

    Bill
     
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  18. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Whoa! 1904? Seriously. That’s unbelievable..
     
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  19. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Why would you ever want to wire two horns in series, unless they were 6 volt ones.
     
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  20. mylovelyhorse

    mylovelyhorse Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I’m thinking I might only fit one of the horns, as it happens. I rarely use the horns and am frankly satisfied if they go “beep” loud enough to be heard over the engine.
     

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