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V7 III Suspension Thread

Discussion in 'V7/V85/V9 Chat & Tech' started by GT-Rx®, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. Refulgent

    Refulgent Riding not rusting

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    A further update on the issue of the Maxton T260C shock possibly fouling the rear rack. Having done a bit more research it appears that only the Givi SR8201 and Kappa KR8201 (identical) use the rear footpeg mount and so have a tube that passes behind the shock just below the top eye. Other racks seem to utilise the top eye mount with a longer bolt and so don't encroach on the shock itself. There may still be issues with side cases/bags of which I am unaware as I have no experience of these.
     
  2. Mayakovski

    Mayakovski High Miler GT Famiglia

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    That seems rather expensive for shocks that are not fully adjustable.
     
  3. Refulgent

    Refulgent Riding not rusting

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    This is the age old problem of what seems reasonable to the owner. The V7 is, after all, an inexpensive bike and many of us will spend a significant sum to tailor it to our needs. The tourer will need screen, racks, luggage, sat nav etc while the racer will strip it to bare essentials to lose weight, upgrading suspension beyond what is needed for the road, possibly even lighter wheels. Those more interested in style will invest in all manner of bling which pleases their eye; who can say who is right or wrong. Whether the cost can be justified is down to personal preference and circumstances.

    With regard to the shocks, yes, perhaps toward the upper end of the price range for units without compression adjustment but how far do you go? Units with high and low speed compression adjustment will cost twice that amount and perhaps best suited to track use. At the other end of the scale it is possible to obtain shocks matched to rider weight (Hagon, among others, do some for around £130 I believe) but there will be a compromise somewhere.

    We live in a time of bewildering choice but isn't it great to be able to choose from an array of options and find something that meets your needs at an acceptable price to your budget. It's fantastic to see a row of V7s that started out with the same spec only to see how creative and divergent they have become at the hands of loving owners. I sometimes think it's Darwinism in metal as each machine has evolved to meet the needs of its owner; things that don't work fall to the wayside while pleasing mods live on - survival of the fittest!
     
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  4. Godfrey

    Godfrey High Miler GT Famiglia

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    While the V7III is not expensive in the context of today's $20,000 bikes, I don't consider $10,000 an inexpensive machine. :)

    My Racer came with the excellent Öhlins rear suspension units albeit with springing more suited to a rider who weighs about 150 lbs. The OEM fork felt crude and unresponsive by comparison. So I installed an uprated set of springs on the rear and a Matris cartridge fork kit on the front, with matched springing. Now I have proper springing at both end as well as both adjustable compression and rebound damping to set the bike up with ... Both have needed a couple of fine adjustments over time so having both has been a major plus. Not inexpensive but well worth it, to me.

    I also upgraded the wheels so that I could use tubeless radial tires. That was far less necessary than the suspension upgrade as well as far more expensive, but it also improved the bike by a significant and noticeable increment. Happily, I could afford it too. The V7III frame and engine are definitely worth these improvements. It makes me think that the only reason Guzzi didn't include this grade of equipment as stock was to keep the selling price down in the acceptable range; I'd rather have the frame and engine be supported by suspension and wheels/tires that allow them to be used fully.

    Both of these sets of upgrades are practically invisible to the eye to the uninformed viewer, so I guess I'm not going to make much of an impression with the custom crowd. :D

    G
     
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  5. Hippo-Drones

    Hippo-Drones Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I fitted adjustable Hagons to my V7, sprung to my weight, they cost around £550 too, and I'd still consider those a budget option. I went K-Tech on the front, and am considering going K-Tech on the rear too as now I have fitted clipons my weight distribution is now different so needs a set up anyhows.
     
  6. StoneMike

    StoneMike Just got it firing!

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    Friends, Guzzi riders, and others,

    I have an opportunity to pick up some Ohlins STX 36 Twin's for my V7III Stone. These are two months old and for a good price.

    Two things:
    1. The current owner doesn't know what weight they're sprung for.
    1.1 He weighs 100KG/220lbs and said they were "perfect"
    1.2 I weigh 85kg/185lbs

    Thoughts?

    2. How difficult/easy are they to install?
    2.1 I have no centerstand, bench or which so would need to do one at a time leaving the swingarm connected by one old shock, install new one, remove old one, install new one.

    Thoughts?

    Thanks,

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
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  7. vagrant

    vagrant High Miler GT Contributor

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    nothing to it just do them one at a time. should be close enough if they were for his weight. the III is a different length from the earlier units. are you sure they are for a III?
     
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  8. TexMexStrada

    TexMexStrada Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Mike, I hope this helps:

    1. The spring itself will have a number printed on it. Google "Ohlins xyz" with the xyz being that number as it appears on the spring. That model number will tell you what weight/load rate that spring is, in N/mm most likely. The ones that are on my V7III Stone are the 18-27N/mm, which is perfect for my well rounded 220# in gear + limited Luggage, with no pre-load dialed in. Maybe Todd can contribute the approximate rider weight ranges for each spring here. You can also find some references to that on another online outlets site.

    1.1. Mine are labeled 00480-03 (so 18-27 N/mm) and they are perfect for approximately 250# total weight on the seat & side carriers without additional pre-load. My sag is 1/3 of the total shock stroke like that, so on the money.

    1.2 As mentioned above, Todd can probably contribute some more specifics here, as to which spring would be best. Do you have any additional luggage or any other accessories contributing extra weight to the rear of the bike?

    2. As long as you have all the hardware, it should take you 15min or less, it is a very straightforward job. The V7III Workshop manual (google it, it is available online for free) has step by step instructions. So the key question is if the previous owner is also selling you all the hardware. To verify what "all the hardware" is, get the code that it printed on top of the shock (it should be two letters followed by three of four numbers) and google "Ohlins XX-XXX PDF" where the XX-XXX stands for those letters and numbers. That should guide you to Ohlins' parts factsheet/instructions for that shock, which will list all the mounting hardware that you need to have to install them.

    2.1.a If the shocks are the same length as your factory shocks, then you should be easily able to replace them one after the other without any additional tools.
    Procedure:
    A. Crank down the preload to nothing (or pretty close) on the factory shock you will replace first.
    B. Crank up the preload to 100% (or pretty close close) on the factory shock you will replace second.
    C. Crank down the preload to nothing (or pretty close) on the both Ohlins shocks.
    D. Remove the first factory shock, and install the first Ohlins shock. Having taken the pre-load down should give you flexibility to make it fit just fine without too much struggle.
    E. Crank up the preload on the Ohlins shock you just installed to 100% (or pretty close)
    F. Crank down the preload on your remaining factory shock to nothing (or pretty close) and then remove it.
    G. Install the second Ohlins shock.
    H. Adjust both now installed Ohlins shocks to proper sag with the pre-leod even on both of them.

    2.1.b If the Ohins shock is longer than your factory shock, and you can't adjust that length to make it even, and you don't have a centerstand, you may need to use a jack to carefully lift the rear on the bike and the procedure above may change (as you may need to remove both factory shocks first). Be very very careful, and have somebody help you keep the bike upright (and maybe even tie it down), don't risk balancing 400#+ on the sidestand.

    One more thing: All this hassle is totally worth it, the Ohlins, when properly adjusted and operating as designed, completely transform the bike.

    I hope this helps!
     
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  9. StoneMike

    StoneMike Just got it firing!

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    Thank you so much. Extremely helpful.

    These are for 220lbs. My ride most of the time is solo without luggage at +-187lbs so I may just have to pass them up...considering. if I'm already looking to improve, I should do it properly.

    Thanks again, a huge help.
     
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  10. StoneMike

    StoneMike Just got it firing!

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    Thanks. That model says V7 classic/Stone and V9 so I think should be a good fit. Not spring for my weight so am on the fence...
     
  11. TexMexStrada

    TexMexStrada Tuned and Synch'ed

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    What shock length does is state on the model you are looking at? The V7III got significantly shorter shocks compared to the previews generation. (350mm vs 390mm if I recall correctly, somebody please correct me if I'm off here)

    As to the spring rating, a couple things to consider:
    1. Have you modified your ergonomics is any way? For example do you have risers or spacers that bring the bars father back, make you sit more upright? Any weight transfer to the back will modify the math on the correct spring rate. In my case, I've modified the ergos and raised the fork to the extent that I shifted a lot of weight forward, that is why the 18-27N/mm spring is spot on for me at 250# of rider + luggage. For reference, my riding position is more aggressive than the stock Racer, and my forks are 12mm up in the tree. If you went the other way, then your load calculations would also.
    2. Is the deal you are getting good enough to offset the cost of having the shock re-sprung (and possibly also re-valved) to make them spot on for your needs?
     
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  12. StoneMike

    StoneMike Just got it firing!

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    Thanks all.

    I just fitted these. It was really straight forward and simple - except for one little question; the set came with 4 think washers/spacers. Are these supposed to go between the bolt and shock, or shock and frame?

    These appear to be model s36pl

    I found this for a HD https://www.ohlins.eu/download/db/Ohlins_DTC_mounting-instruction-hd-142-english--00001014.pdf but the washer bit is pretty ambiguous - i fitted between the bolt and shock and it just looked off - between the shock and frame looks "normal" but would like input from the wiser here :)

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
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  13. Hippo-Drones

    Hippo-Drones Tuned and Synch'ed

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    I have fitted some clippons from the V7 Racer to my Stone, but think I may have over torqued the bolts. Does anyone know the torque settings I should use for them?
     
  14. TexMexStrada

    TexMexStrada Tuned and Synch'ed

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    V7III Service Station Manual says 10 Nm (7.38 lb ft).
     
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  15. TexMexStrada

    TexMexStrada Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Ok, so you are adapting HD 142 (older HD XL 1200) shocks to the V7III, that gets a little more tricky. I adapted KA 144s, so shocks for a Kawa ZXR 1100, so it isn't impossible, just a little more tricky.

    To your question, on mine the washers (which I had to make myself, but that is a long story) went between the shock and the rear swing arm
    IMG_5639.JPG IMG_5638.JPG

    Now there is a process ho I got there. What I recommend you do is you put on the shock on both posts, just loosely hanging there, select the best position for it on the upper mounding point, and then, via feeling and optics, find where the bottom end settles in with the least resistance and with the shock looking most straight in the rubber mounts. Then you mark that spot on the post/bolt (with a pencil, for example) and use shim washers on top and on the bottom to make sure the shock sits in that position when installed. The shock head bushings are mounted in rubber, so they have some flex, but you want to get as close as possible to straight for best performance & longevity. So, long story short, it was between the swing arm and the shock in my case, but your situation may vary.

    Now, big question: Did your shocks mount snug to the mounting posts/bolts? According to the HD 142 manual you shared the sleeves and washers are for 12.7mm (1/2 inch) mounting bolts, but the ones on my V7III were 12mm, and I think yours will probably be the same. 0.7mm is a lot of free play on a shock, you really don't want that for your own safety. You can get sleeves that give you the 12mm to 14mm conversion off the web to avoid that. Maybe the previous owner already did that and you are good, but just pointing that out. You can work with 12.7mm washers, I did, they just look a little off, but function just fine once tightened as they don't carry any load or deal with any impact. But your posts, bolts, sleeves, and bushings do, so they need to be spot on in terms of sizing.

    Now back to your earlier concern about the spring load, according to Ohlins, the HD142 shipped with a spring that has a 15-24 N/mm rate, which should be ok for your weight, just play with the pre-load to get the right sag. I recommend you start at 0mm and go from there. It probably won't be much as Ohlins recommends 15mm in their instructions, and the older Sporty 1200 is about 90# heavier than the Guzzi V7III . Your damping my be a little stiff, but maybe the more vertical alignment of the shocks on the V7III vs the Sporty will help overcome that.

    Since you are blessed to have 100mm of shock stroke on these (vs 80mm on the stock shocks, huge improvement), 10mm extra shock length (360mm vs 350mm), and an extra 10mm length adjustability (you are a winner all around), I recommend that, when you are dialing them in, you make sure you work with the length as well to get the geometry that suits you best. That is because the extra shock stroke & shock length will also impact your rear ride height at the proper sag, and the shock length adjustability lets you play with that further. So you can effectively get a similar effect to adjusting the front forks, but via the rear shocks. I encourage you playing with that to find your handling sweet spot.

    As I said a few posts ago, once properly dialed in, the Ohlins deliver a stable, firmly damped, but very confident ride, enjoy!
     
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  16. StoneMike

    StoneMike Just got it firing!

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    Thank you so much. Re washers, that answers my question and is clear. All the other info, thank you so much for the effort and detailed explanations. It's greatly appreciated!

    Ride safe!

    M
     
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  17. TexMexStrada

    TexMexStrada Tuned and Synch'ed

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    My pleasure, glad to help! Ride safe as well!
     
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  18. Hippo-Drones

    Hippo-Drones Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Many thanks, I shall double check I've not over tightened them! :)
     
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