Service warning light on only at high speed

[scottmastrocinque]

The overwhelming electrical and warning light issues on the Stelvios I have worked on, including my own 2012 I have owned since new, have been related to poor battery conditions.

Hence, this is the first thing I always check by load testing the battery right away. Invariably, although they may read 12.4-13.4 Volts across the terminals, they fail the load test miserably,

It’s worth a try as it is usually a free test at any major auto parts store, and your dealer should be able to do it as well.

 

[KayJay]

Isn’t the Red Triangle Oil pressure - Service immediately ?

“
Oil pressure and Oil sensor
In the event of an oil pressure fault or if the oil pressure sensor is disconnected, the message "ALARM OIL PRESSURE" or "ALARM OIL SENSOR" is shown on the dis- play. The general alarm warning lamp (2) lights steadily if the fault is relative to the oil pressure sensor, and flashes if the alarm is relative to oil pressure.
CAUTION
ALARM OIL PRESSURE: IN CASE OF INSUFFICIENT PRESSURE, THE WARN- ING LIGHT FLASHES. SWITCH OFF THE ENGINE IMMEDIATELY AND TAveKE THE MOTORCYCLE TO AN Official Moto Guzzi Dealer USING A ROADSIDE ASSIS- TANCE VEHICLE.
ALARM OIL SENSOR: IN CASE OF FAULT OF THE OIL PRESSURE SENSOR, THE WARNING LIGHT REMAINS ON STEADY. AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BRING THE MOTORCYCLE TO AN Official Moto Guzzi Dealership.“

Thanks Deadeye,
Before any diagnostics were done my mechanic was leaning toward an oil pressure sensor and I reminded him that the oil can symbol was not coming on. He said he was going to look into a pressure issue regardless. I believe in addition to the red triangle the oil can symbol is displayed and a code is thrown if an oil pressure problem is picked up by the ECU. Additionally I would think the light would stay on at all RPM's if that were the case. My mechanic had the bike connected to his lap top using guzzidiag software and found no codes or abnormalities other than the o2 sensor code during one ride with the lap top strapped to the bike. Replacing the sensor unfortunately didn't fix the issue. The mechanic rode the bike from the shop to his home last night and again went through the diagnostics using the guzzidiag software and will call me later today. I will again mention the possibility of an oil pressure issue just in case. At this point I just want to make sure the bike is safe to ride.
My wife actually had the most logical solution. "Get a new bike and kiss off Piaggio products forever". Needless to say she is not happy! After leaky battery issues, bum fuel level sending unit, dry swing arm bearings from the factory, DLC coating de laminating off flat tappet valves requiring the roller tappet replacement kit with installation not covered under warranty (another $1K for installation and IMO should have been a recall at no cost to customer) and all the recalls including ecu cover, center stand and fog light short circuits, (all common pre 2012 Stelvio 4V problems) and now another $1K on tracking down what may be nothing more than a ghost in the ECU, she is right. Problem is I love the bike! It's simplicity, personality, and comfortable well balanced ride make it one of a kind. That said I am retired and she is still bringing home the beacon so as much as I hate to say it I may be riding something else in the very near future....

 

[KayJay]

He overwhelming electrical and warning light issues on the Stelvios I have worked on, including my own 2012 I have owned since new, have been related to poor battery conditions.

Hence, this is the first thing I always check by load testing the battery right away. Invariably, although they may read 12.4-13.4 Volts across the terminals, they fail the load test miserably,

It’s worth a try as it is usually a free test at any major auto parts store, and your dealer should be able to do it as well.

Thanks,
I'll suggest it when I speak to my mechanic however the battery is brand new and the issue continued after replacing the battery. Can't hurt to try though....

 

[scottmastrocinque]

After leaky battery issues, bum fuel level sending unit, dry swing arm bearings from the factory, DLC coating de laminating off flat tappet valves requiring the roller tappet replacement kit with installation not covered under warranty (another $1K for installation and IMO should have been a recall at no cost to customer) and all the recalls including ecu cover, center stand and fog light short circuits, (all common pre 2012 Stelvio 4V problems) and now another $1K on tracking down what may be nothing more than a ghost in the ECU, she is r

I strongly disagree.

Piaggio didn’t make the battery.

Fuel sending units wear out on every motorcycle made. I replace them all the time.

Piaggio fully stepped up to the plate on the DLC issue. Free repairs were offered to motorcycles that had simple routine service at a authorized service center and those who didn’t do that, received free parts for years afterwards.

The ECU cover, center stand, and fog light shorts are again, issues by the suppliers of those components, and again, Piaggio stepped up to the plate and repaired these for free.

Seems to me that your problem isn’t the bike. It’s your mechanic! $1,000 for the cam swap? Outrageous. $1,000 to diagnose an intermittent ECU error? Again, Outrageous.

You have either an incompetent or extremely greedy mechanic. As a professional mechanic, that’s my 2 cents worth.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Although it’s not common, I’ve seen brand new batteries fail a load test. Every mechanic who’s been in the industry long enough has.

I suggest the following product, applied to the connections on the ECU and sensors.

Fixes a multitude of random electrical errors.

“WHY is DeoxIT Unique? Ever wonder why electronic or electrical devices have glitches, intermittent or data errors, or wonder how you can prevent this from happening. Well, most of the time it is caused by ONE of the thousands of metal connections in the system or device. All electronic connections deteriorate which cause reduced performance or perhaps total failure. Simple contact “cleaners” wash away dirt, dust, and grime, but prove ineffective at removing oxidation and surface sulfides. These tough contaminants actually attach to and become an integral part of the contact metal. This issue causes increased unnecessary service calls for covered warranty repairs that could have been prevented, translating into literally millions of dollars of lost revenue for service organizations. The only true method of eliminating oxidation and surface sulfides is by chemical action and reaction. This is one aspect separating DeoxIT products from all other products, putting it in a class by itself. SOLUTION: DeoxIT D-Series Contact Cleaner/Rejuvenator/Protector. Fast-acting deoxidizing solution that cleans, protects, lubricates, and improves conductivity on all metal connectors and contacts.”

 

[scottmastrocinque]

ECU. What do you guys think about the ECU/ghost code theory?

I think your mechanic is getting rich off of you.

 

[DeadEye]

KayJay, was the mechanic able to reproduce the issue when he took the bike overnight ?

 

[tris]

Thanks Deadeye,
Before any diagnostics were done my mechanic was leaning toward an oil pressure sensor and I reminded him that the oil can symbol was not coming on. He said he was going to look into a pressure issue regardless. I believe in addition to the red triangle the oil can symbol is displayed and a code is thrown if an oil pressure problem is picked up by the ECU. Additionally I would think the light would stay on at all RPM's if that were the case. My mechanic had the bike connected to his lap top using guzzidiag software and found no codes or abnormalities other than the o2 sensor code during one ride with the lap top strapped to the bike. Replacing the sensor unfortunately didn't fix the issue. The mechanic rode the bike from the shop to his home last night and again went through the diagnostics using the guzzidiag software and will call me later today. I will again mention the possibility of an oil pressure issue just in case. At this point I just want to make sure the bike is safe to ride.....

My B1100 used to do something similar and I tracked it down to MG using the wrong connector to join the oil pressure switch to the loom. Makes a dodgy intermittent connection so the ECU thinks there is a problem and flags a sensor error rather than a low pressure error

Assuming the Stelvio is the same as the B1100

• Short term try squeezing the connector tighter onto the nail head of the sensor.
• Long term change to the pressure sensor with a spade connector or change the loom connection to the correct type

I did the last (after trying the first ) and the problem went away never to return

 

[KayJay]

I strongly disagree.

Piaggio didn’t make the battery.

Fuel sending units wear out on every motorcycle made. I replace them all the time.

Piaggio fully stepped up to the plate on the DLC issue. Free repairs were offered to motorcycles that had simple routine service at a authorized service center and those who didn’t do that, received free parts for years afterwards.

The ECU cover, center stand, and fog light shorts are again, issues by the suppliers of those components, and again, Piaggio stepped up to the plate and repaired these for free.

Seems to me that your problem isn’t the bike. It’s your mechanic! $1,000 for the cam swap? Outrageous. $1,000 to diagnose an intermittent ECU error? Again, Outrageous.

You have either an incompetent or extremely greedy mechanic. As a professional mechanic, that’s my 2 cents worth.

 

[KayJay]

Thanks Scott. I also thought this could be a corrosion issue and I did mention this to my mechanic last night before he took the bike home. It seems strange to me that I can recreate the warning light illuminating at will by going to 3000 RPM and leaving it there for several minutes after the bike is warm. If it were a connection issue I would think it would happen under other circumstances as well at random.
Just venting and a bit frustrated... I appreciate all the suggestions and will pass them on. Yes, I know the mechanics have been taking advantage, but the Guzzi dealerships are few and far between so I had no choice for the warranty work. I have 3 dealerships in my area, but of the three, only one even knew what I was talking about when I was searching for someone to take care of the cam swap. He was 6 hours away and charged $145.00 per hour! Still, I loved the bike so thinking this was a one time issue, I pulled the trigger. This was after I saw Pete Roper's video showing Pete doing the job in less than 20 minutes so I knew full well he was taking advantage. I mentioned it to him, but he stood firm on his price. He was the only one I trusted with my bike. I thought if this guy did the work properly it would be a one time thing and I would never have to worry about again. The fuel sender issue was within a week of owning the bike and covered under warranty, but the dealer replaced 2 of them and both failed within weeks. Not wanting to make the trip a 3rd time I ordered a fuel sender, paid out of pocket, and replaced it myself. This time it worked and I noticed the sender I ordered had a different number stamped on it making me think it was a second generation fuel sender (???). The mechanic I am using now used to work for a Guzzi dealership and now works for a performance shop. He is the one working on the triangle light issue. I really like these guys and they said they had approximately nine hours in time trying to diagnose the triangle light issue. It seems this is a diagnosis by exclusion and in order to do this it takes a number of hours to find a cause to an intermittent problem. If anyone disagrees let me know and I will discuss with my mechanic. I haven't heard from him yet today, but he was suggesting the fix may be to replace the ECU. What do the rest of you think of the ECU theory?

 

[KayJay]

KayJay, was the mechanic able to reproduce the issue when he took the bike overnight ?

Haven't heard from him yet today but I'll keep you posted.

 

[KayJay]

I strongly disagree.

Piaggio didn’t make the battery.

Fuel sending units wear out on every motorcycle made. I replace them all the time.

Piaggio fully stepped up to the plate on the DLC issue. Free repairs were offered to motorcycles that had simple routine service at a authorized service center and those who didn’t do that, received free parts for years afterwards.

The ECU cover, center stand, and fog light shorts are again, issues by the suppliers of those components, and again, Piaggio stepped up to the plate and repaired these for free.

Seems to me that your problem isn’t the bike. It’s your mechanic! $1,000 for the cam swap? Outrageous. $1,000 to diagnose an intermittent ECU error? Again, Outrageous.

You have either an incompetent or extremely greedy mechanic. As a professional mechanic, that’s my 2 cents worth.[/QUOTE

 

[KayJay]

Haven't heard from him yet today but I'll keep you posted.

OK,

I just called the mechanic. The word is he could not get the light o come on. He also said he fund a stored code from my short ride yesterday for the o2 sensor heater(???). I am going to pick up the bike and ride it for a while to see what else develops. i suppose there is a slim chance that i got a bum o2 sensor but the fact is the mechanic could not get the light to come on in almost an hour of riding. What are the chances of a glitch that needed to re-set???

 

[KayJay]

update!
spoke to two other mechanics today (not Guzzi mechanics but have been wrenching automobiles for years). They agree the problem is most likely the ECU, either the computer or the connections.
Thanks to everyone for the advice. We did load test the battery and it tested good. (in fact my mechanic had already checked that before I mentioned it to him) Thanks Scott for the info on the deoxit. I'll try cleaning all the connections. The one thing everyone around here agrees to is that the issue isn't going to cause the bike to explode and said chock it up to Guzzi personality. Will recoup from the $$$ spent this round and then replace the ecu if the problem continues. Would I be able to get one through the Guzzitech store?? I did a search but didn't find one.

 

[scottmastrocinque]

You DO NOT need an ECU. I will stand on that ground solid and firm.

Sometimes I want to beat my head against the wall for being an HONEST mechanic.

I could have been seriously rich by now if I had no scruples like this..

Oh, and a cam box swap isn’t $1,000+, it’s not 20 minutes either. Pete Roper is full of shit but we already know this. It’s a 3 hours job if you know what you are doing.

 

[DeadEye]

I should keep my whine about how Technological “Advances” aren’t all the’re cracked up to be, when they don’t develop tools to troubleshoot them at the same pace at which they add complexity !

[ then I could just paste it in over and over...]

 

[tris]

I tend to agree with Scott - it doesn't "feel" like an ECU issue to me

Don't forget that your bike has 3 brains - ECU, ABS & Dash and the wiring for the oil pressure switch goes to the dash and not the ECU as far as I can see from the wiring diagram.

So the warning symbol, is likely triggered by the dash and not the ECU and I believe a lack of oil pressure does not shut the engine down so probably all contained within the dash logic

The 3k RPM could be just a sympathetic vibration that causes something to not make as good an electrical connection as it should.

I'd pull, clean and re-seat every electrical connection I could lay my hands on.
Be careful if you decide to do the ECU as well as I managed to bend a pin flat on my B11 by not plugging it back in quite square. I had a very nervous hour with some needle nose pliers sorting that out and making sure not to bust the pin off

 

[scottmastrocinque]

The rule of thumb with electrical connections is that if two gently pulling or pressing fingers on the connector, are not enough to pull it apart or reseat it, then STOP, check everything, then start again.

There is no sicker feeling then breaking one of the minuscule pins in some of those connectors. You don't want that heartache because they are unrepairable at that point.

Never do this in a hurry, or tired. Be rested, relaxed, put on some very easy music, and TAKE YOUR TIME.

 

[KayJay]

The rule of thumb with electrical connections is that if two gently pulling or pressing fingers on the connector, are not enough to pull it apart or reseat it, then STOP, check everything, then start again.

There is no sicker feeling then breaking one of the minuscule pins in some of those connectors. You do't want that hearache becuase they are unrepairable at that point.

Never do this in a hurry, or tired. Be rested, relaxed, put on some very easy music, and TAKE YOUR TIME.

Thanks everyone!

First I want to apologize for my comments about Piaggio. I was really frustrated... Anyway looks like the folks I have been speaking to were wrong and Deadeye and the rest of you guys hit the nail on the head. On the way home from the shop the warning light came on again under the exact same conditions, engine above 3000 RPM and holding that same RPM for at least several minutes. The light stays on until I change the RPM. (so much for the $800.00 to have the problem fixed) But this time I got a code in the memo column, DSB 08. This would make sense as after doing a little research I found that this indicates an oil pressure problem with the engine running over 2000 RPM if in fact what I read was correct. So now it looks like an oil pressure switch, switch connection, or a problem in the lube circuit. If there really was a problem with the lubrication circuit I would think the light would stay on and I would get the oil can icon as well as a code in the active column. It also makes sense as the issue started immediately after the roller cam swap was done. With all that said, I think I will reset the code and ride a bit to make sure I get the same code again. If so I will proceed with the oil pressure switch replacement. My only worry is that according to Pete getting to the switch is a "royal pain in the front butt." By the way Scott, I felt there may have been a few short cuts in Pete's video, but it did reinforce the fact that it is not a 5 or more hour job and some shops, like the one I ended up in, were charging that. (at 145.00 per hour) I really wish you were located in South Florida! however, I digress. Getting back to the point, how much of a pain is the switch replacement? I spent several years as a kid working with the mechanics at a construction company working on heavy equipment, so although I wouldn't attempt a tranny rebuild, I think I can handle the switch replacement. I also need to know the proper torque setting for the switch.

 

[john zibell]

Forget torque settings for the switch, you can't get to that easy enough. You may if you are good get to it from the left front using a combination wrench (I think 22mm). Be sure to get a new crush washer and it just needs to be snug enough to seal. Pay particular attention to the electrical connection so that it is clean and tight. BTW, it the light goes out when you increase RPM, you probably don't have an oil pump issue. If you had ridden many miles before the roller conversion, metal particles may have damaged the pump.