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Modern "No Start" issue solution

motoman

Just got it firing!
Joined
Mar 10, 2012
Messages
6
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
2010 Griso 1200 8V here... Starter issues like everyone else, tried everything, include MPH wiring. Finally replaced Starter/Solenoid with a Bosch Unit: 001 106 407 from Euro Moto Electrics. Problem solved. Starter motor was actually OK, Solenoid apparently F'ed.

This will be my Last Guzzi. I've never had this type problem in 40 years of riding motorcycles, and I don't have time to deal with it now. Especially since it's so hard to get parts from Piaggio. Guzzi should just give us a Kick Starter!
 

bcls482

Just got it firing!
GT Contributor
Joined
Apr 6, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Cowichan Bay
I am having the startus interruptus problem with my 2012 Stelvio NTX with 90,000 km on the clock. The battery is new and shows 12.8 volts at the battery terminals. However, there is only 10.4 volts at the starter solenoid and no startus. I've noticed that the headlights come on as soon as I press the starter button, and to eliminate the headlight draw, I removed the headlight relay and gained an additional volt at the starter solenoid. My question is: should the headlights come on when I press the starter button, or should they come on once the engine starts? Have I got an incorrect relay in my headlight circuit or some other problem? Perhaps this is normal and how everything is supposed to work. Thanks in advance for your answer. Len O
 

scottmastrocinque

GT Godfather!
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
2,818
Location
Findlay, Ohio
This is well documented and explained. Did you exert any effort and read the posts?

90,000 km and you never noticed how the lights work?

I’m confused and bewildered.
 

patd

Just got it firing!
Joined
Apr 27, 2019
Messages
1
Location
Wayzata MN
Full disclosure - my first post. I have recently applied the starter wiring fixes to both my Guzzis with great success. Both bikes would try to start yet act as though it had a weak battery (ie hesitate before cranking or trying unsuccessfully to crank). This began with my 2004 V11Sport Ballabio which went through a couple batteries, then I rebuilt the starter with a new solenoid. Both fixes would work for a little while, then regress back to weak starting. I kept the bike on a battery maintainer thinking there was a mysterious current drain, that only helped a little. The other bike is a 2012 Norge and there I also replaced the battery which only helped for a couple days. After reading this entire thread, I made the wiring fix to the Norge first as it is a simple one fused wire change. Wow. Problem solved. The V11 has a different wiring scheme which required a separate relay + fuse to be added, this of course has been discussed previously. The difference when starting was immediately, hugely better. I would guess that aside from delivering a better voltage to the solenoid, the lesser overall wiring resistance allows more power to the starter motor too.
 

scottmastrocinque

GT Godfather!
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
2,818
Location
Findlay, Ohio
After reading this entire thread, I made the wiring fix to the Norge first as it is a simple one fused wire change. Wow. Problem solved.

OMG, come here and let me shake your hand Sir!

Now, if everyone that has a problem did this, things would be so much easier and successful for them all.

I tell people all the time that there are very few issues that are not already discussed and solved in detail. SEARCH is a powerful tool and your best friend when combined with reading! :)

Besides, nothing is more stimulating and fun, like interesting and intelligent questions which spring forth from a basic knowledge and understanding garnered from reading.
 
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avlis

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
88
Location
NH
My 2017 V7III Racer is down for the count. Seems like "startus interrputus". Pushing the start button the first time I get a quick "chug" from the starter then, after that, only the relay under the tank clicks.
I replaced the starter relay, tried different batteries, took apart and cleaned and lubed the starter and solenoid, disassembled and cleaned the start and kill switches, cleaned and tightened bolted electrical connections on the battery and starter.
My wiring diagram (from the service manual) is illegible. I've searched and cant find the answer:
Which wire on the V7III gets cut for the bypass? The colors are different than the ones mentioned in this thread. I think it's still pin 5 but want to make sure.
 
Last edited:

scottmastrocinque

GT Godfather!
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
2,818
Location
Findlay, Ohio
My 2017 V7III Racer is down for the count. Seems like "startus interrputus". Pushing the start button the first time I get a quick "chug" from the starter then, after that, only the relay under the tank clicks.
I replaced the starter relay, tried different batteries, took apart and cleaned and lubed the starter and solenoid, disassembled and cleaned the start and kill switches, cleaned and tightened bolted electrical connections on the battery and starter.
My wiring diagram (from the service manual) is illegible. I've searched and cant find the answer:
Which wire on the V7III gets cut for the bypass? The colors are different than the ones mentioned in this thread. I think it's still pin 5 but want to make sure.

You can’t find the answer because V7’s don’t have startus interuptus.

You have a different issue.

FYI: There is a high resolution color wiring diagram in the DOWNLOADS section, available to members who contribute to the site.

Everything you could possibly need is right here, but you have to contribute and then go get it.
 
Last edited:

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,770
Location
Huntsville, AL
My 2017 V7III Racer is down for the count. Seems like "startus interrputus". Pushing the start button the first time I get a quick "chug" from the starter then, after that, only the relay under the tank clicks.
I replaced the starter relay, tried different batteries, took apart and cleaned and lubed the starter and solenoid, disassembled and cleaned the start and kill switches, cleaned and tightened bolted electrical connections on the battery and starter.
My wiring diagram (from the service manual) is illegible. I've searched and cant find the answer:
Which wire on the V7III gets cut for the bypass? The colors are different than the ones mentioned in this thread. I think it's still pin 5 but want to make sure.

Does the starter work when not in the bike, as in with no load? The Valeo starters are prone to failure.
 

avlis

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
88
Location
NH
Here's what I've replaced so far:
Starter relay (OEM)
Starter motor (OEM)
Battery
Here's what I've disassembled and cleaned:
Starter button
Kill switch
Battery contacts
Starter contacts

Additional clues:
Before I got the new battery, I was able to jump start it one warm-ish day using a 12v boat battery I had nearby. Ran fine stationary.
The neutral light is erratic. The bike is in neutral but the light is off. Lift the bike off the side stand and the light might flicker on. If not the impact from the side stand retracting against the bumper will trigger the light. Press the start button: the relay clicks and the N light goes out. Every time.
I unplugged the neutral switch and tried to start in gear with the clutch pulled and side stand retracted. No go.
I also tried bypassing the side stand switch with no luck.

Some guesses: this may be temperature dependent. May work better when warm.
The N light state seems to be gravity and vibration dependent
I don't think it's any of the switches but willing to try a more systematic troubleshooting if that's recommended. I was worried it was the ECU, but the erratic N light doesn't seem like it would be a symptom of that.
Any other ideas? If not, next stop is the dealer, which I'm certain everything will work fine when they try to reproduce the problem...
 

scottmastrocinque

GT Godfather!
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
2,818
Location
Findlay, Ohio
Assuming you've tried all of the things discussed in the previous pages of this thread... I offer my assistance at this point where you seem to be stuck, and nobody is chiming in. So here goes... Please don't shoot the messenger,

First off, I do not have your timeline of what you did when, so I must disregard all of that and make an assumption upon my analysis of what you wrote. I believe that you stated that you originally got the motorcycle to start by putting 2 batteries in parallel. Then while trying to remedy the original problem, you took many things apart, and now, after putting them back together again, you have a true blue no start situation, all the time, no matter what.

It's just "Hit starter switch, click, nothing," No matter what. Same thing every time. If I got this correct then we can proceed.




I've never worked on your specific model (V7's) but I'll offer a possible suggested course of action applicable to any motorcycle, to narrow the possibilities.

We start on big (systems) and move to smaller (components) as we eliminate possible causes.


The two immediate questions in my mind are:


Can you start the motorcycle by directly clipping cables to the starter and then touching the + to your other 12V battery to crank the starter, thereby effectively removing the electrical system from the equation and providing direct power to the starter itself?

No - There is either a problem with the starter itself, the starter solenoid that you took apart or how you reconnected either of them to the motorcycle via the wiring. I know it is new, but there are bad new parts. It happens. You also could have made a mistake in the connections. Only you can see that and double check it.

Yes - Then there is something happening between the battery, and the positive cable at the starter.




What is the voltage difference between what you measure at the battery, versus what you measure at the starter + connection?

You probably don't have one, but I have a digital voltmeter that captures and remembers the highest voltage reading across a circuit. They are not terribly expensive..

I would measure the voltage across the battery terminals very briefly.

Then I would measure the voltage you are receiving at the starter connection when you hit the starter button and use the electrical system.



Those 2 readings, and the difference between them, will give us a new direction to pursue.
 
Last edited:

avlis

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
88
Location
NH
Assuming you've tried all of the things discussed in the previous pagers of the thread... I offer my assistance at this point where you seem to be stuck, and nobody is chiming in. So here goes... Please don't shoot the messenger,

First off, I do not have your timeline of what you did when, so I must disregard all of that and make an assumption upon my analysis of what you wrote. I believe that you stated that you originally got the motorcycle to start by putting 2 batteries in parallel. Then while trying to remedy the original problem, you took many things apart, and now, after putting them back together again, you have a true blue no start situation, all the time, no matter what.

It's just "Hit starter switch, click, nothing," No matter what. Same thing every time. If I got this correct then we can proceed.




I've never worked on your specific model (V7's) but I'll offer a possible suggested course of action applicable to any motorcycle, to narrow the possibilities.

We start on big (systems) and move to smaller (components) as we eliminate possible causes.


The two immediate questions in my mind are:


Can you start the motorcycle by directly clipping cables to the starter and then touching the + to your other 12V battery to crank the starter, thereby effectively removing the electrical system from the equation and providing direct power to the starter itself?

No - There is either a problem with the starter itself, the starter solenoid that you took apart or how you reconnected either of them to the motorcycle via the wiring. I know it is new, but there are bad new parts. It happens. You also could have made a mistake in the connections. Only you can see that and double check it.

Yes - Then there is something happening between the battery, and the positive cable at the starter.




What is the voltage difference between what you measure at the battery, versus what you measure at the starter + connection?

You probably don't have one, but I have a digital voltmeter that captures and remembers the highest voltage reading across a circuit. They are not terribly expensive..

I would measure the voltage across the battery terminals very briefly.

Then I would measure the voltage you are receiving at the starter connection when you hit the starter button and use the electrical system.



Those 2 readings, and the difference between them, will give us a new direction to pursue.
Excellent post. I'll will try your suggestions and report back.
 

avlis

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Messages
88
Location
NH
Got it started last night! Not sure if I'd claim victory yet though...because I'm not sure what was wrong or if/when it will reoccur.

I did a bunch of starter tests: bench test, test on bike with jumper cables and external battery, etc. I noticed the wonky N light behavior stopped when I left the little starter solenoid wire off. That is, the N light would stay lit after pressing the start button. With the solenoid connected, the N light goes out after pressing start.

During all this I started to suspect a bad ground connection between the engine and the starter motor. I removed the starter again and scuffed and cleaned the mating surfaces. I disconnected and cleaned the contact surfaces of the battery connections and starter + connection.

After all this, it finally started on the new battery. I stopped and restarted a few times then replaced the new battery with the old lithium battery I had thought was junk. It started fine on that battery too.

It still starts this morning so that's much better progress than I've had all winter.

For now I'll chalk it up to oxidized electrical contacts. Though this would be surprising because the surfaces all looked fine before I cleaned them. If there was oxide, it was a very thin layer.
 

scottmastrocinque

GT Godfather!
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Jun 26, 2011
Messages
2,818
Location
Findlay, Ohio
As I have been an Italian motorcycle aficionado my whole life, I have learned repeatedly, and have written it here many times...

Italian motorcycles do not like erratic voltage at all. It causes all sorts of gremlins. (Moto Guzzi, Ducati, Aprilia, Piaggio, etc)

I'm very happy you seem to have got it. Best of luck and well done!
 

Mayakovski

High Miler
GT Famiglia
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
884
Location
Comox, BC, CANADA
For now I'll chalk it up to oxidized electrical contacts. Though this would be surprising because the surfaces all looked fine before I cleaned them. If there was oxide, it was a very thin layer.
That is exactly what I just went through on my V7 III. The connectors all "looked" good to my eye. But after a gentle scuffing, Vrooom, runs like a top.
 

john zibell

Moderator
Staff member
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
Oct 28, 2008
Messages
8,770
Location
Huntsville, AL
For now I'll chalk it up to oxidized electrical contacts. Though this would be surprising because the surfaces all looked fine before I cleaned them. If there was oxide, it was a very thin layer.
That is all it takes. I was on a ride with my 1100 Breva and after a gas stop she wouldn't start and deat intrument panel after attempting to start. Removed and cleaned battery cables and battery terminals and she started right up. There is an earlier post on this that I put up many years ago.
 

Brian UK

GT Reference
Joined
Nov 6, 2008
Messages
2,095
Location
Addlestone, Surrey, UK
You can’t find the answer because V7’s don’t have startus interuptus.

You have a different issue.

FYI: There is a high resolution color wiring diagram in the DOWNLOADS section, available to members who contribute to the site.

Everything you could possibly need is right here, but you have to contribute and then go get it.
Beg to differ, but why do you say that? The feed to the start relay goes via the key switch in just the same way that it does on all earlier models.
 

Louisv97

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Jul 24, 2019
Messages
311
Location
Orange County
As I have been an Italian motorcycle aficionado my whole life, I have learned repeatedly, and have written it here many times...

Italian motorcycles do not like erratic voltage at all. It causes all sorts of gremlins. (Moto Guzzi, Ducati, Aprilia, Piaggio, etc)

I'm very happy you seem to have got it. Best of luck and well done!
no they do not. I for some stupid reason left the negative terminal on my battery off and went out riding on my v7. it did not like it one bit. went into a frenzy
 
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